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[Thanos]

but they are running this thing real time through an asus laptop see that 

[Michael]

im too tired to pay attention x(

[pspeed]

Edit: Not only that but it would take a computer the size of the USA to calculate and scan every atom on the earth.

Except that it would have to calculate and scan itself.  Without modeling, it cannot be done.  As you increase the size of the computer then you need more storage to store the computer parts' atoms... and the storage required is greater than the added parts will support.

[ap0r]

It's like an infinite loop as i see it, the computer has to model the computer that is modeling the computer that is modeling... etc

[Moonkey]

Yes, but I was talking about earth itself and not the computer.

[pspeed]

Yes, but I was talking about earth itself and not the computer.

So where would the computer be?  Not on earth?  Otherwise, how do you separate earth and computer at that point?

At any rate, the original sizing is wrong because it would take a computer bigger than the earth to keep track of all of the atoms on the earth.  It takes more than an atom to keep track of a single atom.

So without modeling (ie: approximating a large group of atoms as a model instead of tracking each one) you'd need a Jupiter-sized computer to keep track of the molecules on earth.  Maybe that's what Jupiter is doing.

[pspeed]

I was curious, so I did a little research before bed...

From wikipedia: "Jupiter's volume is that of about 1,321 Earths"

So if you could store the full position of an atom in less than 1321 atoms then a Jupiter sized computer would work (ignore all of the other apparatus needed lets just pretend another planet is the storage medium.)

However, currently, under special conditions, the smallest we can store a single bit is in 12 atoms.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16543497
Under more normal conditions it is theoretically more like 150-200... but let's be optimistic and go with 12... for 1 bit.

Now, if we pretend for a second that all we need is position and orientation (let's ignore for a moment the juxtaposition of the electrons and nucleus)... and if we are further optimistic that 64 bit floating point will work (64 bits of something will)... then if we go: x, y, z plus a quaternion for orientation then that's 7 64 bit values... or 448 bits.

...now each of those bits takes 12 atoms... so 5376 atoms total... per atom.  For storage we would need a planet roughly 5 times the size of Jupiter.

Now, taking a step back into reality and let's go with "visible 'atoms'" that are not really molecular atoms but just "something really small to make pictures out of".  Note that the rest of the world calls these "voxels" and has been using them for decades.

And this is where we get into why I believe the Euclidian tech is other a scam or so limited as to not be generally useful beyond the next Minecraft clone... I've played with LIDAR data before and it's _huge_.  This is basically a 3D point cloud sampled with a laser.  A street full of buildings at even 1 centimeter resolution is a pretty massive amount of data to push around.  Usually it goes through a simplification process that turns it into polygons.  So if the Euclidian stuff works then it must work like games like Mythruna and Minecraft in a way, where there is a larger grid that says "tree here", "elephant god statue here", and then pulls those from a highly compressed index of "tiles".  You can see how repetitive the demo looks... you see the same objects repeated like a cookie cutter.  This is also why non-static lighting (the stuff they said they are still working on) is likely to be impossible.

...but you know, as long as they have investors.

Note: I'd love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening.

[belgariad87]

I was curious, so I did a little research before bed...

From wikipedia: "Jupiter's volume is that of about 1,321 Earths"

So if you could store the full position of an atom in less than 1321 atoms then a Jupiter sized computer would work (ignore all of the other apparatus needed lets just pretend another planet is the storage medium.)

However, currently, under special conditions, the smallest we can store a single bit is in 12 atoms.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16543497
Under more normal conditions it is theoretically more like 150-200... but let's be optimistic and go with 12... for 1 bit.

Now, if we pretend for a second that all we need is position and orientation (let's ignore for a moment the juxtaposition of the electrons and nucleus)... and if we are further optimistic that 64 bit floating point will work (64 bits of something will)... then if we go: x, y, z plus a quaternion for orientation then that's 7 64 bit values... or 448 bits.

...now each of those bits takes 12 atoms... so 5376 atoms total... per atom.  For storage we would need a planet roughly 5 times the size of Jupiter.

Now, taking a step back into reality and let's go with "visible 'atoms'" that are not really molecular atoms but just "something really small to make pictures out of".  Note that the rest of the world calls these "voxels" and has been using them for decades.

And this is where we get into why I believe the Euclidian tech is other a scam or so limited as to not be generally useful beyond the next Minecraft clone... I've played with LIDAR data before and it's _huge_.  This is basically a 3D point cloud sampled with a laser.  A street full of buildings at even 1 centimeter resolution is a pretty massive amount of data to push around.  Usually it goes through a simplification process that turns it into polygons.  So if the Euclidian stuff works then it must work like games like Mythruna and Minecraft in a way, where there is a larger grid that says "tree here", "elephant god statue here", and then pulls those from a highly compressed index of "tiles".  You can see how repetitive the demo looks... you see the same objects repeated like a cookie cutter.  This is also why non-static lighting (the stuff they said they are still working on) is likely to be impossible.

...but you know, as long as they have investors.

Note: I'd love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening.

so... how's working on mythruna going? 

[pspeed]

so... how's working on mythruna going? 

LOL.  Slow and brain-consuming.  This post was nice to clear my head before bed... I still dreamed about physics zone managers all night, though.

[belgariad87]

so... how's working on mythruna going? 

LOL.  Slow and brain-consuming.  This post was nice to clear my head before bed... I still dreamed about physics zone managers all night, though.

well its only a week. thanksgiving week, even. hopefully you will get the hard stuff done 

[Moonkey]

I just ate. Ughh. So full. Euclidion team are being too secluded from the world. So It's really iffy.

[pspeed]

I just ate. Ughh. So full. Euclidion team are being too secluded from the world. So It's really iffy.

Yeah, I'm still full.  Turkey, ham, trimmings... and a big slice of pecan pie.  I ate too much.

Euclidian would be more forthcoming if they actually has something, I think.  The fact that they don't have a demo at every game dev conference is a pretty damaging indicator.

[Michael]

I ate from 2pm - 8pm and i am still hungry

[Thanos]

I was curious, so I did a little research before bed...

From wikipedia: "Jupiter's volume is that of about 1,321 Earths"

So if you could store the full position of an atom in less than 1321 atoms then a Jupiter sized computer would work (ignore all of the other apparatus needed lets just pretend another planet is the storage medium.)

However, currently, under special conditions, the smallest we can store a single bit is in 12 atoms.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16543497
Under more normal conditions it is theoretically more like 150-200... but let's be optimistic and go with 12... for 1 bit.

Now, if we pretend for a second that all we need is position and orientation (let's ignore for a moment the juxtaposition of the electrons and nucleus)... and if we are further optimistic that 64 bit floating point will work (64 bits of something will)... then if we go: x, y, z plus a quaternion for orientation then that's 7 64 bit values... or 448 bits.

...now each of those bits takes 12 atoms... so 5376 atoms total... per atom.  For storage we would need a planet roughly 5 times the size of Jupiter.

Now, taking a step back into reality and let's go with "visible 'atoms'" that are not really molecular atoms but just "something really small to make pictures out of".  Note that the rest of the world calls these "voxels" and has been using them for decades.

And this is where we get into why I believe the Euclidian tech is other a scam or so limited as to not be generally useful beyond the next Minecraft clone... I've played with LIDAR data before and it's _huge_.  This is basically a 3D point cloud sampled with a laser.  A street full of buildings at even 1 centimeter resolution is a pretty massive amount of data to push around.  Usually it goes through a simplification process that turns it into polygons.  So if the Euclidian stuff works then it must work like games like Mythruna and Minecraft in a way, where there is a larger grid that says "tree here", "elephant god statue here", and then pulls those from a highly compressed index of "tiles".  You can see how repetitive the demo looks... you see the same objects repeated like a cookie cutter.  This is also why non-static lighting (the stuff they said they are still working on) is likely to be impossible.

...but you know, as long as they have investors.

Note: I'd love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening.

Im not sure I can understand everything you say but those dudes claim to have implemented a super fast search algorithm (like google search) which searches for only the points you will need each time and brings them to your screen. You think that could reduce the huge amount of data required for this to work?1

(they said they might make their appearance again arround the end of december with a playable demo...lets....see)

[Sean]

Minecraft has something similar to that called Advanced OpenGL. It will only load what you can see.