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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Moonkey on April 09, 2012, 06:18:29 PM



Title: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 09, 2012, 06:18:29 PM
Ok. My dad has known for awhile now how to make a pure electric car generate its own electricity through its transmission, and the rolling of its tires. So think of electricity in gallons: 100's of miles per gallon. He's not motivated enough to do it though, he thinks he can't do it right. I still have faith (He runs a small shop in our yard and has worked on cars for a big amount of his life. He has no employees and is a 1 man worker. Very honest man in his work.) So what do you think guys? The future is becoming brighter for the cars, If my dad is up for the task.

Edit: I'm not trolling around, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 06:27:58 PM
You have to put energy into the system somewhere.  It can't be created from nothing.  You only get the amount of work out of it equivalent to the energy put into it unless you find a way to break the laws of physics.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 06:33:41 PM
Yeah... damn those laws of physics... you might be able to get some of the engergy back. But no where near the ammount to create even somewhat propetral motion.

I've had an idea somewhat like this.
I'll post a diagram later typing from in game righht now :)


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 07:59:59 PM
I think most electric cars now recover energy from breaking... or at least that technology has been around and understood for like 20 years.  It's the only time you can recover energy without putting a drag on the engine and end up sapping more power than you create.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 09, 2012, 08:15:36 PM
I don't know the exact details of how it works. You don't gain an infinite amount of energy but think: Perpetual energy.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:25:12 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/LeiSt.png)
Tada...
Behold my awesome paint skills


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 08:28:32 PM
I don't know the exact details of how it works. You don't gain an infinite amount of energy but think: Perpetual energy.

For an "engine" in the general "physics" sense of something that performs work:

Energy Output = Energy Input * Efficiency

...where efficiency is some value between 0 and 1 (exclusive).  Efficiency can never be 1.

If you can manage to break that equation then you've developed perpetual motion... which is impossible because of that equation.

Oh, and depending on how you break that law, you might get anti-gravity, too.

At best, you can recover wasted energy by applying generators to slow the car during breaking or coasting down hill.  Otherwise, it's like trying to charge one battery with another battery and hoping to keep both batteries charged.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 09, 2012, 08:28:47 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/LeiSt.png)
Tada...
Behold my awesome paint skills
Many mistakes with this. You can't generate solar energy through a light. This type of thing has already been made into flash lights too :) .


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:30:04 PM
Lol... you can use a solar panel on a basic bulb light in your house...


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 08:30:25 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure solar panels are even up to 50% efficiency yet... and that's for direct sunlight.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 08:30:50 PM
Lol... you can use a solar panel on a basic bulb light in your house...

But it will not generate enough power to power the light bulb.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:32:01 PM
Stupid human's relying on non renewable resources to power the world  -.-


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:33:49 PM
Also the point of the mirrors is to store the light energy


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 08:34:24 PM
Here is a thought experiment for you:

Take a model car with an electric motor on the back wheels and a generate on the front wheels.  The generator on the front wheels will not produce enough power to run the motor at the back.

"Well, we could gear up the generator to run double fast", you might say.

But then you've now also doubled the drag that the generator imposes... requiring the back motor to work harder to push the car forward.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 08:34:48 PM
Also the point of the mirrors is to store the light energy

Mirrors don't store energy.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:35:28 PM
Well bounce back... to keep the light in that little area for as long as possible


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 09, 2012, 08:38:10 PM
Well bounce back... to keep the light in that little area for as long as possible

It depends on the efficiency of the mirrors in question and how clean they are, but a pulse of light would probably last less than a nanosecond, I think.  I haven't done the math, though. :)

And really, at best it's getting you back some percentage of the light that was scattered inefficiently by the bulb.  Then there is all of the heat loss, etc..   A generator wired to a motor will give you more efficiency... at least you have some metal momentum on your side.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 09, 2012, 08:40:13 PM
Btw, generating the electrivity happens in the transmission's pistons.

Edit: Bah whatever. I'm going to sleep. Goodnight


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:40:42 PM
What... if... you throw in one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310148993913&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 09, 2012, 08:46:27 PM
What... if... you throw in one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310148993913&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Seems legit. I'd rather buy from china than from USA.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: randomprofile on April 09, 2012, 08:54:52 PM
Lol... I don't have the funding to try and create anything like this :(
However I might get a job life guarding in... a week?
Maybe then


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: BenKenobiWan on April 09, 2012, 10:50:29 PM
I don't know the exact details of how it works. You don't gain an infinite amount of energy but think: Perpetual energy.

Even if you could make a perpetual motion machine (Tip: throw rocks in space), it wouldn't help with this problem. For a car to move, it must use energy. Energy cannot be created/destroyed, so the energy goes from the car out into the road, air, etc. If you hook up a generator with 100% efficiency, you can catch the energy before it leaves the car and store it there forever. Unfortunately, this means it doesn't go into the roads and the air, and the car does nothing.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: FutureB on April 09, 2012, 10:57:01 PM
I don't know the exact details of how it works. You don't gain an infinite amount of energy but think: Perpetual energy.

Even if you could make a perpetual motion machine (Tip: throw rocks in space), it wouldn't help with this problem. For a car to move, it must use energy. Energy cannot be created/destroyed, so the energy goes from the car out into the road, air, etc. If you hook up a generator with 100% efficiency, you can catch the energy before it leaves the car and store it there forever. Unfortunately, this means it doesn't go into the roads and the air, and the car does nothing.

ohh wise one please teach me ur ways and alow me to be your padawan.

anyway just use a good old petroleum fulled piston reciprocating engine :] hehehehe


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: FutureB on April 09, 2012, 10:59:10 PM
Ok. My dad has known for awhile now how to make a pure electric car generate its own electricity through its transmission, and the rolling of its tires. So think of electricity in gallons: 100's of miles per gallon. He's not motivated enough to do it though, he thinks he can't do it right. I still have faith (He runs a small shop in our yard and has worked on cars for a big amount of his life. He has no employees and is a 1 man worker. Very honest man in his work.) So what do you think guys? The future is becoming brighter for the cars, If my dad is up for the task.

Edit: I'm not trolling around, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious.

btw if ya dad does know this ect... he would of patented it and would be a potential millionaire......


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 10, 2012, 07:12:07 AM
I don't know the exact details of how it works. You don't gain an infinite amount of energy but think: Perpetual energy.

Even if you could make a perpetual motion machine (Tip: throw rocks in space), it wouldn't help with this problem. For a car to move, it must use energy. Energy cannot be created/destroyed, so the energy goes from the car out into the road, air, etc. If you hook up a generator with 100% efficiency, you can catch the energy before it leaves the car and store it there forever. Unfortunately, this means it doesn't go into the roads and the air, and the car does nothing.

Hey: Pure electric car. Not fuel. Read everything correctly again.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 10, 2012, 07:16:34 AM
Ok. My dad has known for awhile now how to make a pure electric car generate its own electricity through its transmission, and the rolling of its tires. So think of electricity in gallons: 100's of miles per gallon. He's not motivated enough to do it though, he thinks he can't do it right. I still have faith (He runs a small shop in our yard and has worked on cars for a big amount of his life. He has no employees and is a 1 man worker. Very honest man in his work.) So what do you think guys? The future is becoming brighter for the cars, If my dad is up for the task.

Edit: I'm not trolling around, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious.

btw if ya dad does know this ect... he would of patented it and would be a potential millionaire......

The plain idiocy in your sentence makes me think if you really do want to help this community. I live in a rural area, basicly miles upon miles away from an urban town. We don't even have it built yet. And car companies around the world would try and find a way to stop us from trademarking and everything else


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 10, 2012, 07:18:13 AM
Hey: Pure electric car. Not fuel. Read everything correctly again.

Where does the electricity come from?  You implied that it would all be generated by the car... which means there would be no electricity left to run the car and it would still run out of power.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 10, 2012, 07:19:52 AM
Hey: Pure electric car. Not fuel. Read everything correctly again.

Where does the electricity come from?  You implied that it would all be generated by the car... which means there would be no electricity left to run the car and it would still run out of power.

Battery.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 10, 2012, 08:00:54 AM
Hey: Pure electric car. Not fuel. Read everything correctly again.

Where does the electricity come from?  You implied that it would all be generated by the car... which means there would be no electricity left to run the car and it would still run out of power.

Battery.

So nothing really different than current electric cars.

You can't tap into the drive train to charge the battery without making the drive train work harder and drain the batteries faster... no matter where you tap in.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on April 10, 2012, 11:18:34 AM
It charges the battery using its own momentum, in other words it keeps its charge going on longer, the energy put into the engine would be from the battery, the transmission then generates power from power, creating the same amount of power but in a smaller charge that circulates back into the battery otherwise giving it a small charge back so that it lasts longer than a usual car.

Edit: It's some-what like how a power-plant works. A local power-plant generates power for the new power-plant to generate power. But think of that without the fuel, and the local power-plant just keeps placing energy on the power-plant without fuel, but the movement of the power-plant creates energy and re-fuels itself but not forever.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: BenKenobiWan on April 10, 2012, 12:11:59 PM
It charges the battery using its own momentum, in other words it keeps its charge going on longer, the energy put into the engine would be from the battery, the transmission then generates power from power, creating the same amount of power but in a smaller charge that circulates back into the battery otherwise giving it a small charge back so that it lasts longer than a usual car.

Edit: It's some-what like how a power-plant works. A local power-plant generates power for the new power-plant to generate power. But think of that without the fuel, and the local power-plant just keeps placing energy on the power-plant without fuel, but the movement of the power-plant creates energy and re-fuels itself but not forever.

This idea could potentially be more efficient than the current model, I'll give you that.

To put things in perspective:
To keep a 500kg car moving on a road (friction coeff. = 0.20) at 54 KPH, there needs to be a power output of 15,000 Watts. This means 15,000 Joules of energy have to leave the car every second. Friction is the reason this idea wouldn't work forever. You have to constantly be fighting it, and thus constantly losing lots of energy. If you hooked up a generator that could flawlessly gather 15,000 Watts, your motor would have to start putting out 30,000 Watts, and nothing would change.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 10, 2012, 12:57:17 PM
It charges the battery using its own momentum, in other words it keeps its charge going on longer, the energy put into the engine would be from the battery, the transmission then generates power from power, creating the same amount of power but in a smaller charge that circulates back into the battery otherwise giving it a small charge back so that it lasts longer than a usual car.

Edit: It's some-what like how a power-plant works. A local power-plant generates power for the new power-plant to generate power. But think of that without the fuel, and the local power-plant just keeps placing energy on the power-plant without fuel, but the movement of the power-plant creates energy and re-fuels itself but not forever.

If you charge from momentum then you are creating additional drag and making the motor work harder to move the car... thus draining the battery faster.

This is why using the breaks to recharge the battery is efficient because that is otherwise wasted energy.  You can also do it when coasting downhill if the speed of the car would exceed the desired speed... but that's really no different than selective breaking... which most cruise control systems will do for you.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on April 10, 2012, 12:59:03 PM
It charges the battery using its own momentum, in other words it keeps its charge going on longer, the energy put into the engine would be from the battery, the transmission then generates power from power, creating the same amount of power but in a smaller charge that circulates back into the battery otherwise giving it a small charge back so that it lasts longer than a usual car.

Edit: It's some-what like how a power-plant works. A local power-plant generates power for the new power-plant to generate power. But think of that without the fuel, and the local power-plant just keeps placing energy on the power-plant without fuel, but the movement of the power-plant creates energy and re-fuels itself but not forever.

This idea could potentially be more efficient than the current model, I'll give you that.

To put things in perspective:
To keep a 500kg car moving on a road (friction coeff. = 0.20) at 54 KPH, there needs to be a power output of 15,000 Watts. This means 15,000 Joules of energy have to leave the car every second. Friction is the reason this idea wouldn't work forever. You have to constantly be fighting it, and thus constantly losing lots of energy. If you hooked up a generator that could flawlessly gather 15,000 Watts, your motor would have to start putting out 30,000 Watts, and nothing would change.

And "nothing would change" is only true for a 100% efficient system.  The truth is that the motor and the generator are both not anywhere near 100% and will lose energy as heat, etc.... so it would actually be worse.  You'd have to produce more than 30,000 watts to keep the car moving.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: BenKenobiWan on April 10, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
Quote
a generator that could flawlessly gather

Emphasis on 'flawlessly'.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Danutron on April 10, 2012, 07:54:05 PM
frustrating reading i think ill stick to my bike, no need for fuel, only my stinking feets


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Sean on April 12, 2012, 11:01:38 AM
Ok. My dad has known for awhile now how to make a pure electric car generate its own electricity through its transmission, and the rolling of its tires. So think of electricity in gallons: 100's of miles per gallon. He's not motivated enough to do it though, he thinks he can't do it right. I still have faith (He runs a small shop in our yard and has worked on cars for a big amount of his life. He has no employees and is a 1 man worker. Very honest man in his work.) So what do you think guys? The future is becoming brighter for the cars, If my dad is up for the task.

Edit: I'm not trolling around, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious.

Unless you can make it 100% energy efficient (which is impossible) it wont work. Also What you described is a Hybrid. :)


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Bisonsteve on June 15, 2012, 03:30:14 PM
I had the same idea for a science project in school, but my teacher said it was already thought of and made. I guess NOT...


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on June 16, 2012, 09:09:59 AM
I had the same idea for a science project in school, but my teacher said it was already thought of and made. I guess NOT...

Your teacher sounds like a jerk.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on June 25, 2012, 10:07:14 PM
Lol, this post is newer than Paul's post about "Facebook,twitter,etc..." and my post already has more views :).


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Caladin on June 26, 2012, 06:59:35 AM
I had the same idea for a science project in school, but my teacher said it was already thought of and made. I guess NOT...

Your teacher sounds like a jerk.

I'ld say he shouldn't be teaching science; even say a bio teacher should know the law of conservation of energy :/


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: EllisPope on August 20, 2013, 04:19:12 AM
Ok. My dad has known for awhile now how to make a pure electric car generate its own electricity through its transmission, and the rolling of its tires. So think of electricity in gallons: 100's of miles per gallon. He's not motivated enough to do it though, he thinks he can't do it right. I still have faith (He runs a small shop in our yard and has worked on led lights (http://www.niceledlights.com) for a big amount of his life. He has no employees and is a 1 man worker. Very honest man in his work.) So what do you think guys? The future is becoming brighter for the cars, If my dad is up for the task.

Edit: I'm not trolling around, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious.


Sounds very exciting... You have not shared any pics of the electric car.. Hope you have some more updates with latest pics..


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on August 20, 2013, 01:11:34 PM
Ouch, old post revival. The idea was scrapped mainly because it was an idea and you can't generate free energy. So no pics.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: RalphKowalczyk on February 03, 2014, 07:36:10 AM
Lol... you can use a peimar solar (http://www.shinesolar.net) on a basic bulb light in your house...
I think it is possible but very hard to implement and expensive too..


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on February 17, 2014, 07:32:06 PM
I never should've started this thread. Too embarrassed to go back to page 1 to read it all.

Edit: MY GOODNESS THE VIEWS.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on February 17, 2014, 09:16:55 PM
I never should've started this thread. Too embarrassed to go back to page 1 to read it all.

Edit: MY GOODNESS THE VIEWS.

Heheh... it is funny that this is like the most active thread right now.  ;)


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on February 21, 2014, 01:02:05 AM
I never should've started this thread. Too embarrassed to go back to page 1 to read it all.

Edit: MY GOODNESS THE VIEWS.

Heheh... it is funny that this is like the most active thread right now.  ;)
It's like those kind of ads you see on websites that look interesting but you know they aren't true


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: BenKenobiWan on February 23, 2014, 09:13:29 PM
I never should've started this thread. Too embarrassed to go back to page 1 to read it all.

Edit: MY GOODNESS THE VIEWS.

Heheh... it is funny that this is like the most active thread right now.  ;)
It's like those kind of ads you see on websites that look interesting but you know they aren't true
Hahaha!


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: SKUD on March 11, 2014, 03:56:15 PM
Well your dad has basically 2 choices. More if you live outside the U.S..(do you use 2 periods after an initial?) If he believes he can at least build a more efficient electric car then by all means do it. Now if he believes he can build a car that moves under its own power by means of its own energy...hes definitely on the list of people in the world who should take a crack at it. Keep this in mind though, furthering the efficiency of electric cars is a commendable effort in technology. Building a vehicle that lessens the overall need for fossil fuels, and even worse the ridding of that need altogether, is something that could potentially hurt your fathers way of life. Unfortunately theres not much in the way of proof on that statement. I could maybe give a list of people who have claimed to have built cars to run on water(H2o) and the year of announcement cross referenced to the date of death. But that would be rather depressing lol :P. Honestly though there were some very interesting inventions that were patented originally by certain people. Obviously things like trade secrets cant just be revealed by patent...so in none of those patents were a new form of energy apparent, but the apparatus' themselves were integral to the invention as a whole. For each respective inventor the same story emerges sadly. Announcement then Demonstrations, after that a buyer or partner...then onto unfortunate events leading to death or immediate seclusion. That is all relative until you take into account that each one of them had a patent that is now used in things like Fuel additive pills(the water is never used as fuel, all the combustibles come from the pill). Oxyhydrogen and gasoline hybrids. Look at Daniel Dingel, he was a Filipino inventor who went into partnership with Formosa Plastics Group and declared a fraud shortly after, sued and in 2008 at 82 imprisoned for 20 years. His patents on galvanization(part of the system for energy recapture in his "watercar") have been transferred to FPG and are currently being used in 600,000mw Taiwanese power units 1 year later. My best advice is to tell your dad it couldnt hurt to see if he first uses his transmission method in an existing electric car to test its efficiency as a whole. If it moves on its own created energy then your dad will never see too much money from it, the best thing to do is make more in secrecy and put alot out at once as to prevent any stifling of his success and/or existential proof of his claims. Enough cars driving around town at once on local demonstration should work. They cant stifle a whole town can "they".


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on March 11, 2014, 05:32:57 PM
Blow up a balloon.  Tie it off.  Then add more air to it.  "How?"  Ahah.

...that is thermodynamics (and thus energy loss, conversion, motion, etc.) in a nutshell.

If someone can show a car that moves under its own generated power then I will show you a power source that they are hiding or hadn't considered.


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: Moonkey on March 12, 2014, 12:30:14 AM
Blow up a balloon.  Tie it off.  Then add more air to it.  "How?"  Ahah.

...that is thermodynamics (and thus energy loss, conversion, motion, etc.) in a nutshell.

If someone can show a car that moves under its own generated power then I will show you a power source that they are hiding or hadn't considered.
How do you add air to a tied off balloon? Poke a compressed air can through the top, or bottom where it's most dense so it won't pop. ;) Of course, you can't poke a hole through thermodynamics though...


Title: Re: Electric car using its own momentum to generate electricity.
Post by: pspeed on March 12, 2014, 02:38:45 PM
Blow up a balloon.  Tie it off.  Then add more air to it.  "How?"  Ahah.

...that is thermodynamics (and thus energy loss, conversion, motion, etc.) in a nutshell.

If someone can show a car that moves under its own generated power then I will show you a power source that they are hiding or hadn't considered.
How do you add air to a tied off balloon? Poke a compressed air can through the top, or bottom where it's most dense so it won't pop. ;) Of course, you can't poke a hole through thermodynamics though...

Yeah, you are clearly poking a hole in the system at that point.  :)  I thought of an even better example.

Stand on a scale.
Grab yourself by the pants and lift.

Surely you are strong enough to lift enough weight to decrease the scale reading, right?  No?  "What if I pull harder?"

Yeah, still, no.  If you couple your inputs to your outputs and do not inject anything else... there will be nothing be net loss... and even in a 100% system then there will surely be no net gain.  So even in a 100% efficient system you can never do any work.  All of your 'work' will be used up keeping the perpetual motion going.  Suck any of it off and the system is by definition not 100% efficient anymore.