Mythruna

This question and related questions seem to come up from time to time.  I've answered it in a few different ways scattered around but I thought it was worth collecting it all in one place.  At the very least it will become a nice link when someone else asks. :)

What is "alpha"?

In traditional software development life cycles, "alpha" is where you freeze features and then begin fixing bugs in preparation for "beta".  "Beta" is where you release your software to some or all your users for testing "in the wild".

For indie development, these terms don't make the same sense because the players are getting to play the game long before it reached anything close to alpha.

So for me, Mythruna is "alpha" when it meets the following criteria:

• Basic feel of the real game is clear
• Most (hopefully all) performance-draining features have already been added and risks assessed
• Most of the game trailer that I've story boarded can be filmed "in game".
• Integration with the Mythruna.com store

When the game hits alpha, for anyone seriously looking at it, I want them to easily understand why this game is different than other games and what it is similar to.  Fortunately, much of the "feel of the real game" will be implemented when the "performance-draining features" are added.

By "performance-draining feature", I mean those features that have a good chance of lowering the performance of the game.  Physics and AI are the biggest items here.  Each of these may lower performance in significant ways depending on how things unfold.

Since to play the full version of alpha will require that users pay, I want to make a best effort at making sure they will still be able to play the game later.  I'd hate to release alpha, make a bunch of people pay for it, and then 6 months later add changes that keep paying users from being able to play.  It might happen... but I will do my best to prevent it.

So at a minimum, the following features are necessary for alpha:

• Physics - including hinges, ropes, springs, pulleys, cloth, etc.
• AI and NPCs
• Character animation - both players and NPCs
• Combat (probably)

The full high level roadmap can be found here: http://mythruna.com/forum/index.php?topic=502.0

What will "alpha" cost?

The current plan is for alpha to cost $15 U.S.  This could go as high as $20 depending on a few things but $15 is the current plan.

This price covers alpha, beta, and the final release of this version of Mythruna.  (I say "version" because maybe 5 years from now there is a completely different Mythruna 2.0 that is entirely new... this price doesn't cover that.)  This price covers all 1.x versions of Mythruna.

Donators can lock in a $10 price now by donating $10 U.S..  This gets a license for the game regardless of what the price is later.  The full benefits of donating are spelled out here: http://mythruna.com/donation-benefits/

...but locking in a discount price seems like a pretty good reason to me.

When is "alpha"?

The flip answer would be "when it's ready".  The real answer is much harder.

My typical feel is that it is "six months away".  It always seems like a reasonable (even if aggressive) schedule... but I've felt like it was "six months away" for the past 4 months.

So, the best I can do is say that it will continue to be "six months away" until I update that to "five months away"... which probably won't be a month from now. ;)

If there are questions that this did no cover then ask them below.  I will incorporate my answers into the text above and note that in your response.

Take your time Im sure it will be better if you do it right. If you need any help testing I hope you'll know who to contact.

Thanks a lot for pointing that out so clearly!

It's very good to keep the playability in mind. Before you force the players to buy a license you have to ensure it will work later on, too. Otherwise you will get a horrible reputation.
Of course you want to get something back after investing a huge amount of time and also money, the server does not pay for himself.
The 'why no f2p???' folks will have to realize that fact.

Best wishes for your progress!

*Puts on market for $15 U.S.*
*5,000 people buy the game*
*Paul drools at the amount of money*

75,000$ = Not even enough to buy a nice house.

Yeah, that's not much money in the grand scheme of things.  Definitely not enough to quite my job, anyway. (not even close actually)

Yea, you would need about quadruple as much buyers to get a nice house. And to think Mojang has hit the millions already.

Heheh... I already have a nice house.  The problem is that I'd like to keep it for another few decades. :)

Housing debts... :)

Hey, I think you might find this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minecraft#Commercial

...To compare this to another Indie game we all know about.  In the first month of release, Minecraft sold 1,000,000 copies.  Advertising was by word-of-mouth.  25,000 of those were in the 24 hours following a weekend of play-for-free. 

I can't put into words how excited I am for Mythruna.  I think this game will do as well or better than Minecraft.

Lets just be skeptical though, say you sell 1,000,000 copies in the first year.  That's $15,000,000 - enough to live very comfortably for the next 100 years. 

Mate, take the time to let your dreams become Mythruna reality, and I predict you will be very well off.

Thanks for the nice words.  I'd settle for simply making a living at it... but it would be nice to fund the next projects, too. :)

And what happens if Mythruna becomes really popular and eventually gets cracked? Will the sales be reduced?

You mean "cracked" in the way that players who didn't pay for it somehow manage to unlock the full game?

For one thing, studies show that these players wouldn't have paid for the game anyway.  So it's not really a lost sale.  You just have to make it more convenient for honest players to play it legitimately than it is for them to play it illegally.  So it has to be easier to buy a valid license than it is to search for and install some crack.

For another, they won't be able to play on legitimate servers, regardless of any cracks.  It's the legitimate player, server, and modder market that is the most important to me.  The game will be successful if those things are successful.  The people who will make those areas a success are the ones that will gladly pay for what they believe is a good value rather than trying to find some way to crack every new mod that some modder puts out.

I see. So it will work the same way as minecraft legitimate servers. But there are many not legitimate too I used to play on them before I actually bought the game so studies are wrong in my case ;D But I totally understand what you say, I guess single player mode could be easier to unlock too but who wants to play forever alone in an infinite world? :P

Are you planning to sell the game on steam or other similar websites?

But you eventually bought it.  You are the poster child for why it's exactly the right level of copy protection. :)

In Mythruna's case, I don't plan to force you to login every time you want to play single player.  For logging into a server it will be necessary, though.  Servers may have the option to relax this "every time" requirement if you've connected to them before within a certain amount of time.  I'm still working out details of the token passing design.

I hate it when I can't play a game just because I'm having trouble hitting the main site, though.


I'd like to.  I will explore that more when I get closer.  The landscape changes a lot and who knows how long it will be before I'm to that point.

Maybe for a free demo you can give them all or most of the features (single player only) for only one map? maybe a crappy map or something.

I think if the parts included for free and the game play videos don't convince people (along with all of the grayed out checkboxes in the plugins list)... then they won't be convinced anyway.  Or if they are, they will begrudge every penny spent there-after.

But we'll see.  I'm flexible on some of these points... though each option has significant down sides to go with the up sides.  For example, some people already don't believe the world is randomly generated just because they see the same seed every time.  Those same players who only get access to one full-featured world may decide they've explored all they can and not bother paying anyway.

Also, something else I see significantly among people who play in the "free to play" communities... well-meaning folks who have no problem buying a game outright will utterly refuse to participate in any micropayments for a "free" game.  And they get really angry about attempts to make them pay.  This attitude makes me want to be very clear about the difference between demo mode and pay mode.  If could be that this is a relatively small percentage of folks but in my local microcosm nearly everyone I know who plays the Facebook free-to-play games feels this way... and posts about it vocally from time to time.

simplest way to explain to a person what the difference between demo and pay mode:

In a semi-descriptive way:

I think you kind of missed my point.  You will maybe understand when you are older.

Alot of people who actually pay for games, buy them and expect to pay charges for expansions but when they are bombarded with "pay more" all the time it feels like a money pit. Demos are a hard topic because you could alienate many people.

Yeah, and there's the people who would have paid for a game like Farmville if they'd charged up front but somehow feel enraged any time they are presented with the opportunity to spend money in the game.

I don't plan to make Mythruna a free to play game like that.  I think there's a lot of money in that but it also requires constant new content, etc. to keep the micropayment options fresh and exciting.  If Mythruna ever has any me-developed add-on content then I'd like it to be something significant and not just a funny looking hat for 5 cents.

There will be a specific demo mode.  The game will be in demo mode until you login to your Mythruna account for the first time and verify your purchase.  When in demo mode, certain features will just not be available at all.  When logging into to servers you may also have to login to your main Mythruna account so that the server can verify your identity and what you've paid for.  This is also how the server will make sure that you have the right plugins, etc. before letting you in, how the server can check your subscription, etc..

Since I hinted at it, I will address this topic... I go back and forth on whether or not I will provide Simsilica developed mods for some cost later.  There are a few reasons that this is a good idea... it means I'm "eating my own dogfood" with the modding API.  It also means that I can keep the price of the regular game low and still keep income coming in to fund further development.  The down side is that I don't want players to feel like they are paying twice... so a) it would come a significant amount of time after the full release, and b) it will clearly not be part of the regular game that I've been promising people up until then.  The alternative that is fair to early adopters, though maybe not fair to the community, is to keep raising the cost of the game as features are added... that makes it harder for people to jump on board later.  Though this may end up happening sometime between beta and release... like one more price bump for those who haven't bought yet.  Just depends on how things go.

There goes "When you are older" again -.-

If a modder comes up with an amazing mod, one thats just "everyone must have" is there a possibility that you yourself would purchase the "rights" of this mod and make it a permanent thing, one people wouldnt have to then purchase

Never say never, I guess.  But it's not something I plan on.  Personally, I will try to stay away from mods so that I lessen the accusations of stealing if some mod implements something early (and different) then I planned to implement already.

But who knows.  It largely depend son how lucrative the game is by that point and whether it can afford such a thing.

Speaking about mods, if someone wanted to make a mod where everyone could afford it and he could get money without making people pay. Would you take in consider of letting such people use adf.ly or other sites like this?

I'm trying to understand... you want to make an ad-supported mod?  ie: players can download it for free but you somehow advertise somewhere?

My Mythruna store will support free to download content.  I will probably also support optional payments... like "donate if you want to" sort of things.  I don't know how I would tie it into ad-based revenue, though.

A modded could probably mod in an ad screen on the side if he was keen on it, but then someone would make an mod to remove ads. Oh, well.

I made it way too confusing. :). Basically: Can modders use adf.ly as a link to their download? (Not saying I would because I can't but just helping those who would want to.)

I suppose... but the intent is for plugins to be hosted on mythruna.com so that the game can auto-download them if needed.  We'll see how it actually works out.

Sorry for the necro on this thread, but...

I really like that idea Paul, something that definitely should be implemented if possible. I have played so many games, tried to connect to a server but can't due to the lack of a certain mod, and not joined that server because of lethargy.

Ehh... The bigger the game gets, the harder it is for them to stay connected with the community.