Mythruna
April 24, 2024, 01:25:16 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to the new forums. See "Announcements" for a note for new users.
 
  Home Help Search Login Register  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2
1  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Another nice web mention... on: February 25, 2012, 03:08:34 AM
Now I have to start looking for that castle!
2  Modder's Workbench / Scripting / Re: Scripting console... on: February 17, 2012, 03:42:34 PM
I read your original API stuff on the way home form work but didn't have time to reply. I come here to type a quick "thanks for the info" type note and there was even more scripting goodness and a new build. There goes my last night of SWTOR!
3  Modder's Workbench / Scripting / Re: Scripting console... on: February 17, 2012, 07:23:00 AM
I'll have dabble with it over the weekend.

I'm also intrigued to know if there is a reason why the player's location is accessed using getLocation rather than say player.location or player.getLocation? Are there going to be global methods (for want of a better description) which can be called without an object or is there an implicit this as in this.getLocation?
4  General Category / Announcements / Re: New test build 20120214 - Now with stand-alone server on: February 15, 2012, 01:38:10 AM
Happy anniversary!
5  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Been Too Long on: February 11, 2012, 08:18:04 AM
I can change it if you don't think typing an extra four characters would matter. Smiley
It doesn't matter to me as a scripter, in fact I would prefer the consistency/symmetry if it is appropriate. However I can't say if it matters to the system/server/virtual machine: you're the expert there! Ultimately I guess it comes down to what the session method represents/returns. Does it represent the actual session (IP address, connection time, etc.) or does it represent a bunch of ad hoc variables?
6  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Been Too Long on: February 11, 2012, 06:51:18 AM
Not sessionData?
7  General Category / Announcements / Re: Combat Prototype Stuff on: February 09, 2012, 11:55:09 AM
blocky weapons? ... can't we at least have SOMEWHAT rounded weapons
Presumably that will depend on the blocks. I believe Paul mentioned that he was making some specialised blocks for swords and has mentioned scimitars might be possible so other special blocks will presumably follow in due course. He also mention something about blanks and moulds in another thread.

EDIT: fixing typos
8  Modder's Workbench / Scripting / Re: Scripting: Getting Started (WIP) on: February 07, 2012, 02:32:40 PM
Re: Scripting: Getting Started (WIP)


Agreed.  The console was just about getting ones' groovy feet wet without necessarily having to pull up a big IDE.  That is also the same console that I will launch "in game" in a script-developer mode when I get to that point.  So some familiarity is probably a good thing.
That's a good point. Rethinking the progression it might be better to start off with notepad and some simple "copy and paste" style examples to whet the appetite. We can use them to explain some of the bigger concepts (like "event-driven", "scripting", etc.) then introduce the Groovy Console and script-builder mode (once ready) and finally recommend Java SDK/IDE etc.

I'm wondering now if the whole Java SDK/IDE thing is even necessary? I assumed it would be but if there's no real benefit to Johnny Modder then we can leave that for the advanced/die-hard modders.

There will be ways to have all of the following:
-global variables available to all scripts  (only exists in a hacky way but I may decide this is too dangerous anyway)
-global variables available to a specific script (any variables defined in the script are global to the script, ie: same variable for all players)
-in-memory data associated with a player/connection (this requires more code than it should and is what I talk about above.  This data only lasts while the player is logged in)
-persistent data associated with a player (in multiplayer this already exists for string, int, etc... primitive types.  playerData.someValue = "foo"; playerData.save())

One I'm on the fence about:
-persistent data associated with any entity (the entity system supports this but it's not as straight forward as the playerData example above)

In Neverwinter Nights, we could have any local variable we wanted on any object.  I can make some nice functions for doing this within the entity system but I have to see how well it performs.  One thing you couldn't easily do in NWN was have random objects just to stick things on (well, you could but they cost you)... In Mythruna's entity system, an entity is free (literally costs nothing) until it has data associated with it.
My NWN roots make me want to say "local variables for the win" but back then (before campaign variables, NWNX and the various database add ons) that was really all we had for transferring data between scripts or making it persist. I wrote a bank system for the PW I played on at the time (just before local variables were patched in) and it used an item's tag to encode the bank balance!

I'm sure if you add "entity variables" people will find ways to use them where it makes sense to add persistent data to something other than the player, for example, I can't imagine trying to make TileMagic without them! Mmm ... BlockMagic ... that sounds like a good name for a mod ...

*wanders off thinking*
9  Modder's Workbench / Scripting / Re: Scripting: Getting Started (WIP) on: February 06, 2012, 02:48:14 PM
Great post about the Groovy Console (probably the start of a second wiki article right there) but please don't feel you have to respond while you are busy at work. I suspect it will be a while before people are demanding a "Taking the Myth out of MythScript" type article. Also hopefully there's a few other people here that I can prod for Java/Groovy knowledge (otherwise I'll be grabbing my textbooks and then Maker help us all)!

Now, while the Groovy Console is definitely cool for us programming types, I think to capture a potential modder's imagination our first "Hello World"1 script has to appear in game. Affecting the game is what it's all about! Ideally "Hello World" would be displayed in the Mythruna equivalent of NWN's floatytext or .Net's MessageBox GUI. The next step could then evolve that script into one that accesses the some game data and perhaps says "Hello <playerName>" and evolve it again to add some additional information like "you have been playing for <playTime> minutes".

Once they have a couple of basic scripts under their belt the next tutorials could look at different aspects of the API including things like the water repair tool; or get/set time of day; get a list of people logged in; make me drunk (every game needs that); change fog colour, oh, no, wait ... that was NWN. Doh!

Obviously we'll know more about the cool things as the API starts to become defined and we get a feel for things that are useful, fun or just plain cool.
____
1 I just thought it should be "Hello Mythurna"  Wink

10  Modder's Workbench / Scripting / Re: Scripting: Getting Started (WIP) on: February 06, 2012, 05:48:36 AM

Bearing in mind that this article will be aimed at the non-Java programmer what other steps are required to get started? Do they have to set environment variables? Copy jar files from A to B? Extract files from jars? In short what have I missed?

Has anyone used/is anyone using any of these IDE with/without the plugins and could provide an insight into their relative strengths/weaknesses?

"Getting Started" is really a combination of "getting everything you need downloaded, installed and configured" and "writing, compiling and running your first script". In other words we want to take a reader has, until now only played Mythruna to executing a "Hello World" script as painlessly as possible to avoid potential modders giving up before they get started. Any ideas  you have regarding that would be welcome.

Similarly although I currently have "Review the Samples Scripts" in as the final step it probably would be better being moved to/part of a "What/where next" step.
11  Modder's Workbench / Scripting / Scripting: Getting Started (WIP) on: February 04, 2012, 08:42:45 AM
I'm trying to collate information on Mythruna scripting (and possibly modding Mythruna generally) for those of us who perhaps don't have a great deal of the Java/Groovy experience but who might be interested in scripting (or modding) for Mythruna.  What follows is very much just intended to get the ball rolling and would benefit from those of you that actually know stuff and/or have used stuff. Once it's been knocked into shape we can migrate it to the wiki.

1. Download the latest version of Java SE SDK

Downloadhttp://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index-jsp-138363.html#javasejdk
Guidehttp://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/newtojava/documentation/index.html
APIhttp://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/

2. Download the latest version of Groovy SDK

Groovy a dynamic language that runs on the Java Virtual Machine (JVM) and is one of the scripting languages supported by Mythruna engine.

Download http://groovy.codehaus.org/Download
Guide http://groovy.codehaus.org/Getting+Started+Guide
API[link required]

3. Download an IDE

An Integrated Development Environment (IDE) is not essential however it can make life a lot easier with features such as syntax highlighting, auto-complete, debugging, etc. For a quick comparison of the different Java IDEs see this Wikipedia article.

We suggest using one of the following free IDEs:

3.1 Eclipse IDE for Java Developers

Downloadhttp://eclipse.org/downloads/
Groovy pluginhttp://groovy.codehaus.org/Eclipse+Plugin
Guidehttp://help.eclipse.org/indigo/index.jsp

3.2 IntelliJ IDEA Community Editions

Downloadhttp://www.jetbrains.com/idea/download/index.html
Groovy Pluginhttp://groovy.codehaus.org/IntelliJ+IDEA+Plugin+by+JetBrains
Guidehttp://www.jetbrains.com/idea/documentation/index.jsp

3.3 NetBeans IDE 7.1

Downloadshttp://netbeans.org/downloads/index.html
Groovy Pluginn/a
Guidehttp://netbeans.org/kb/index.html

4. Review the Sample Scripts

12  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Admin tool suggestions on: February 02, 2012, 01:04:04 PM
By the sounds of it we want everything we could do with the NWN DM client and the DMFI Wand. That's not asking too much is it?
13  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Magic on: February 02, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
I personally don't favor the idea of associating elements with races, because it makes them more limited. Talking about different races, Paul has mentioned that elves (I think) are better at magic, simians are better at machines, and so on. So it's higher up than magic. instead of being the thing you divvy up, you divvy up a broader category, and magic is one piece.
From your reaction I don't think I explained my idea very well. I'm not saying that a particular race owns an element or are prohibited from using an opposing element. That would, indeed, be very limiting. All I was trying to do was see if there was a natural association each of the races and and a given element. The effects of that association would be much more subtle and in line with the other racial traits. It wouldn't really be particularly limiting or empowering but rather just another slight difference between the races.

For example, I think most will accept the undead as being creatures of negative energy and therefore susceptible to positive energy. It pretty much an RPG standard that what heals living creatures harms undead creatures and vice versa (sunlight and vampires, Cure Light Wounds vs. Cause Light Wounds, etc.). And yes, as you correctly pointed out, Elves have an innate magic ability but if we read their description we see that "[i]t is based on life energy and usually requires sunlight to work. In other words, they can naturally transform sunlight into life energy": this sounds very much like Positive Energy and Healing to me. Similarly the fact that some Dwarves "will be able to predict whether a mineral vein is worth following just by the smell and shape of the rocks. Some may even possess a homing sense for specific types of minerals" could be seen as their sensitivity to the Earth element. Further "[t]heir relationship to the earth means that many types of magic energies are naturally and harmlessly absorbed making some magic have a diminished effect" echoes the "insulating" property I assigned to the Earth element.

Hopefully you can see that the seeds for the races being associated with or having an affinity to a particular already exist in the race descriptions and all I've tried to do is take them to a natural conclusion. It may not fit with Paul's world view or it might be it does and as a result he decides to change the Reptilians in to a underwater race of fish/shark people because it helps balance the system.
14  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Magic on: February 02, 2012, 11:01:12 AM
Yikes! The magic system seems to be much bigger that I imagined it would be: physics, spells building, augmentations crafting, runes, rituals, energy sources, etc. I'm definitely intrigued to see who you are going to balance classes (if you having classes) and make the mundane combat (melee and ranged) as potential interesting as magic has the to be that's a conversation for another thread or two (*evil grin*).

Elements

Since the elements are basis of magic system and still appear to be somewhat up in the air I decided to try and refine my own ideas and in the hope of producing something you might find useful. I started with a blend of traditional 4 and 5 element systems: various different flavours from various different cultures. I added a dash of almost forgotten PnP RPG memories and seasoned with a pinch of recently indulged CRPG experience. The whole thing was allowed to simmer over lunch and reduced it until I was left with:



The primary elements are six nearest the centre: positive and negative energy, fire and ice, earth and sky.

The elements on the left in opposition to those on the right however the left side (other than negative energy) are not inherently negative. The elements' child nodes are things they are associated with: their spheres of influence, properties, forms, etc. The fact that the two "energy" elements have a lot more children may not represent them being more powerful but they are probably more eclectic or, if you prefer, versatile. I avoided including illusions (upsetting many Gnomes) preferring to provide positive and negative versions (under Nature and Spirit). There is also an argument to say that Spirit and Nature could be elements of their own but for now I've left them there because ...

Races

While I was working on the elements it struck me that a couple of the playable races were particularly attune to one element or another: Avians to Sky, Dwarves to Earth, Elves to Positive Energy (Nature).

So I decided to see how far I could take this association. I started with the standard fantasy assumption (probably ingrained in me by D&D) that Humans, as the jack of all trades, should not be associated with a particular element. The three I mentioned above were obvious and Pantherians seemed to lend themselves to Fire (they prefer hot, dry places; hate water; and all cats like to curl up in front of a good fire). With five down and two to go: Reptilians seemed closer to Ice (they are cold blooded and, in my mind at least, potentially amphibious) but no matter what, I couldn't associated Simians with Negative Energy. Despite their aggressive tree chopping ways I didn't think you'd ever forgive me if I suggested making your engineering monkeys evil!

Then I remember the close relationship Humans have with Simians. Perhaps there was an elemental reason for this connection. So if I took the arbitrary decision that Simians also lacked an elemental association what race could I associate with Negative Energy? Mythruna appears to lack an evil playable race (what no Sith?) so I had little choice but to look beyond playable races, at least for the time being:



My approach was to try and shoehorn the elements to fit the races however if you like the idea you can always amend the races/lore to fit the elements and so, for example, Reptilians may become Aqualians or some such.

Spells

I like the idea that your life energy is your health, stamina and mana all combined. Everyone has draws from a single pool in a way that best suits their play style. Presumably for balance melee and ranged combat will have a similar "do and die" option that mages would have (unless of course there are no classes).


Wands are tricky to discuss because they require complex field manipulation and I'm not sure whether this applied to all energies or if they are piggy backed onto shaped gravitational energy.  A beam is easy, similar to a laser.  You have some component or components that turns the beam annular.  Things like magic missile are more difficult to describe as they involve creating one field within another, filling that field with energy, and punching it off.  A minimum of three fields are in effect and only one is a beam.  In Mythruna magic, "magic missile" will not be a trivial thing to make. Smiley

Does this just apply to magic or just mechanical magic (wands and circuits)? Or were you simply talking from a programming perspective which will be transparent to the player? I think this case illustrates the difficulty of trying to align magic with science or engineering. While we both find this approach attractive there are limits and at some point I think we have allow magic to retain some unexplained mystique. On these occasions saying "its magic" isn't a cop out but similar to the way we accept Star Wars lightsaber blades and blaster bolts simply because they're cool.

As I see it (with my somewhat blinkered view) there are 6 forms of casting (with some associated D&D style nouns):
  • self
  • object/location
  • projectile/directed (arrow, bolt, javelin, missile, spear, beam, ray, etc.)
  • self AOE (aura, circle, sphere)
  • object/location AOE (aura, circle, sphere, wall, pillar, storm)(
  • projectile/directed AOE (spray, cone, ball)

Additionally there may be modifiers such as "explode on impact", "recursive", etc. So Chain Lightning could be normal Lighting with the "recursive" modifier so that some of the energy is reserved and used to recast itself from the initial target. Alternatively this may simply be due to the properties of electricity and metal which reach a critical mass when there are enough armour clad warriors in close proximity.

Combination and Cumulative Effects

I also jotting down ways in which different primary elements could be combined to create new secondary "elements" which might also be useful. Some basic examples might be:
  • earth (stone) + (lots of) heat = lava
  • earth (sand) + heat = glass
  • ice + heat = water
  • water + heat = steam
  • earth + water = mud
  • mud + water = quicksand
  • water + cold + air = snow

Of course that barely scratches the surface but you get the idea. Unfortunately it also raises a question about how elements in opposition apply to each other. Fire + Water = Nothing but Water + Fire (Heat) = Steam? Do the order and quantity of elements in a formula become important?

Similarly, in combat, can attacking with different elements produce cumulative effects? To use a Dragon Age example, if I freeze someone with Cone of Cold spell and follow it up with Stone First is there a chance my frozen opponent could shatter?  Or to use a Magicka example, if someone is wet from being in water or hit by a water spell and I cast an electricity spell at them does it do more damage?

15  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Magic on: February 01, 2012, 06:45:14 PM
Apologies for the double post but the first one was quite long enough and I wanted to jot down a couple of thoughts before I called it a night. Apologies also if the following is a bit random ...

I was trying to recall Dragon Ages elements: Fire, Cold/Ice, Electricity/Lightning, Earth, Spirit, Nature and Force (introduced by DA2 I think). I think there was also some pure "magic" damage type that Arcane Bolt used but I could be remembering that incorrectly. Poison wasn't an element as such but would produce Nature damage plus additional effects.

Given the name (Myth-rune-a) it wouldn't be entirely inappropriate to have some sort of rune base magic system where you collect magic runes which can be used to build spells (Lego magic); enchant weapons and create traps (you are having traps aren't you?). This may be useful for balance, progression and control. Runes could be acquired in a variety of ways bought from vendors, dropped as loot, discovered through mining, crafted through research, given as quest rewards, extracted from items, etc. Obviously the more powerful ones would be rarer. Runes would be of different types, for example, element (fire) + shape (shere) + size (small) + form (projectile) + modifier (expole on impact) = fireball!

Right that is more than enough preempting: I'll go to bed and let you tell us what you actually have in mind!
Pages: [1] 2
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!