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Author Topic: Let's talk No Man's Sky  (Read 5317 times)
Rayblon
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« on: August 27, 2016, 05:02:58 AM »

I haven't done one of these in a while, and it felt long overdue.  Here's to hoping this one gets some action. For those that aren't familiar with it, No Man's Sky was expected to be one of the most groundbreaking games ever released, giving players a literal universe to explore. Fast forward to two weeks after release, and playership of the game has dropped over 90%. There has been lots of public outcry that Happy games deceived consumers about the features that would be present in the game, and the game itself has been described as being "a mile wide, but two feet deep".

What are your thought on this matter? If you've played the game, how was your experience? What can we take away from this development, and, perhaps most importantly, what do you think needs to be done to (further) distance ourselves from the potential of a similar ordeal with Mythruna?
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pspeed
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 10:56:48 PM »

I really liked No Man's Sky.  It's my current go-to game.

It's kind if funny because I think it does suffer somewhat from what I always feared from procedural generation.  The first three planets or so that I visited were variations on the same idea.  Different colored ground, a few different shaped rocks, and some random plants and animals but mostly similar terrain.

One night I was flying around one such planet and showing my son the game and pointed to what looked like a moon hanging in the sky.  I told him "And we can fly there if we want to."  So he said "Let's go".

Now, let me interrupt for a second to say that as an explorer-minded person, that's just a really cool thing right there.

Anyway, that planet was as different from the others as can be.  There was GRASS!  This was the first planet I'd ever been to with real grass.  It was also red and the trees were blue.  But maybe even more importantly, the terrain was bonkers.  Big squared topped mountains and strange giant rock "growths" that looked kind of like big mountain-high snakes forming weird arches and just generally odd raised ground.

Since then, I've also hit a planet that was mostly water and completely devoid of any life except the random "in order to have a playable game we must at least have these things" plants.  (ie: you can't  have a planet with no carbon or thalium else a starting player would be stranded there forever.)

The thing I always worried about with Mythruna is what would a new player's perception be if the first time they played they were plopped in the middle of a desert that was miles in all directions.  Or if I had longer seasons, what if the only thing they saw was winter?

NMS definitely suffers from this.  It's one of the reasons that so much of the basic mechanic is set to keep you moving forward.

There isn't much depth but initially it feels like there is.  And still when I find some new bit of information on the back story of the sentinels or the history of the Gek, I always slurp it up.

I think they probably said they'd deliver some things that they didn't but I think mostly it's a) a lot of misunderstanding, and b) the publisher saying "Ship this game now!"

But for a consummate explorer, it's a really beautiful game.  (I've taken so many screen caps of cool looking scenes that it's crazy... rivals my Mythruna screen shot collection.)
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Rayblon
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2016, 01:03:01 AM »

I think they probably said they'd deliver some things that they didn't but I think mostly it's a) a lot of misunderstanding, and b) the publisher saying "Ship this game now!"

Oh, absolutely. I think, too, that some people forgot that this isn't a AAA title. It was made by a little known studio that hadn't made any notable games up to that point, and it was a crew of 15 people developing it. It is, for all intents and purposes, an indie game. An indie game that got way more hype than was good for it. Had the hype been a little more subdued, I think it would be regarded for what it really is: a decent game. Still a shame that the phrase "A mile wide but two feet deep" applies to it, but that's not necessarily restricted to NMS, either.

The thing I always worried about with Mythruna is what would a new player's perception be if the first time they played they were plopped in the middle of a desert that was miles in all directions.  Or if I had longer seasons, what if the only thing they saw was winter?

That first sentence reminds me of a minecraft server I played on. The gimmick was that the entire 10km X 10km map was a desert and you had to maintain your hydration and watch your temperature. It may seem monotonous compared to the 20 something biomes in vanilla minecraft, but the mechanics that were introduced for this (at the time) new kind of gameplay made it really fun and challenging. Going back to the issue of depth, if you give the biome enough nuance and unique challenges, you could ship Mythruna as 'just' a desert and still have it have huge player retention. We should discuss biomes more thoroughly in the future.

As for long seasons, well... biomes and seasons would balance eachother out, in a sense. Each biome will react to seasons differently, right? Subtropical and tropical regions would have a dry season during winter, and a wet season during the summer, while heading toward temperate regions and tundras would lead to the classic expression of seasons, with variations depending on the climate. Ideally, local fauna and flora would react and cycle along with the seasons as well. (and maybe even migrate?) This is a game, so generally speaking, things that make it less fun have no place here. If winter is something we're still concerned about wrt how players will enjoy it, then we really need to look at how we can evolve winter to be 'fun'.

We've touched on this before, but it's still worth noting that winter doesn't have to be a time where everything is dead. Since it's here, No Man's Sky has a beautiful and colorful universe filled with life that has adapted to some of the harshest conditions we'll never have the displeasure of experiencing, be that radiation, scorching heat, or extreme cold. And frankly, we have more artistic license since this is fantasy. It kind of goes back to the idea of depth, too. Give them enough things to do and adapt to in one season, and they'll more likely than not stay until the next one.

Put in true pspeed fashion, if they see winter, make them think "Okay, typical snowy village." "Oh, why are the edges of the screen turning frosty?" "Whoa, so bonfires aren't just for cooking things!" "And pelts are more useful than plate armor in the tundra?!" "Ooh, is that tree growing over there made of ICE?!" "And are those crystal flowers over there being pollinated by crystal insects?" "Is that sparkly thing over there their nest?" and so on.

Of course, allowing easy customization of these things never hurts regardless of how you decide to balance seasons and biomes.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 01:40:49 AM by Rayblon » Logged

pspeed
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 11:32:40 AM »

What I mean is that if you plop someone in a desert and they walk in one direction for X hours and only see desert... they might turn off your game and think "Man, these graphics suck... everything is just sand all the time."

Same with winter.  If winter lasts more than a few hours real time  "Meh, these tree graphics all suck."

It's just something I have to be aware of.
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Rayblon
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2016, 02:10:43 PM »

What I mean is that if you plop someone in a desert and they walk in one direction for X hours and only see desert... they might turn off your game and think "Man, these graphics suck... everything is just sand all the time."

Same with winter.  If winter lasts more than a few hours real time  "Meh, these tree graphics all suck."

It's just something I have to be aware of.

I think this can still be reasonably addressed by making sure the biomes and seasons always have something really cool going for them. A desert biome is practically begging for ancient ruins(with complementary murder dungeons), creatures lurking below the sand, oases, and sprawling adobe cities to accompany the (occasionally rather vibrant) flora.

There are going to be people choosing to make deserts or tundras their permanent residence, so it's important, I feel, to make sure that every single biome can captivate players for a long time. One of the issues that even that desert server had was that lack of interesting things. There were ruins, yeah, but you soon came to realize that there were only eight types of ruins and they were just glorified hunks of sandstone. There were plants, but all you really saw were palm trees, deadbushes, and cacti... and grass when you found an oasis. Deserts can be beautiful, but they need a great deal of variety just like any other biome. And really, from a gameplay perspective, deserts will need a wide variety of flora to keep our adventurers alive and able to produce items that they'll need like food, healing salves, medicine, and fires. Since the comparison is there, in a perfect world, we'd have a level of floral/faunal variety on par with an NMS planet for each biome archetype... just, you know, with more uses than just giving you carbon.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 03:57:41 PM by Rayblon » Logged

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