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Author Topic: Character Attributes...  (Read 9099 times)
pspeed
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2013, 05:03:43 AM »

Paul at this rate you now have a very slim chance of hitting alpha by next summer Tongue btw your awesome

Thanks.  Ultimately, that kind of progress is up to my wife's tumor.  She gets it checked again on January 9th and hopefully it hasn't grown anymore.
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Teknonick
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2013, 06:24:22 PM »

Paul at this rate you now have a very slim chance of hitting alpha by next summer Tongue btw your awesome

Thanks.  Ultimately, that kind of progress is up to my wife's tumor.  She gets it checked again on January 9th and hopefully it hasn't grown anymore.
Yeah. If you're lucky, maybe it decided to become nice for the holidays and cured everything in her? That would be so nice of the tumor... wouldn't it? Ahh, dreamers can dream, can't they....... Either way, I hope it's decided it's finished being mean, and goes away. "Santa, all I want for the holidays is for Paul's Wife's tumor to grow a heart. Please Santa, do this one thing for me. Wont you?"
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ebag51
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2013, 07:18:49 PM »

Paul at this rate you now have a very slim chance of hitting alpha by next summer Tongue btw your awesome

Thanks.  Ultimately, that kind of progress is up to my wife's tumor.  She gets it checked again on January 9th and hopefully it hasn't grown anymore.
Yeah. If you're lucky, maybe it decided to become nice for the holidays and cured everything in her? That would be so nice of the tumor... wouldn't it? Ahh, dreamers can dream, can't they....... Either way, I hope it's decided it's finished being mean, and goes away. "Santa, all I want for the holidays is for Paul's Wife's tumor to grow a heart. Please Santa, do this one thing for me. Wont you?"
Wait if the tumor grew a heart wouldn't it get bigger? JK just messing with you i know you mean it metaphorically but seriously it would be nice for Paul's wife's tumor to go away next year, it would be good for his family and the development of mythruna Tongue (hope that didn't sound insensitive Paul sorry if it did) 
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pspeed
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2013, 07:36:06 PM »

Thanks, guys.
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Teknonick
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2013, 12:00:32 PM »

Yeah ebag... I actually couldn't help but think the same thing :S. Anyway, I seriously hope she gets better (Either for game development... lol... or) because she seriously deserves it. She married a really good man, and doesn't deserve that tumor. The harsh reality of life is the nicest people get it the worst... Sad.

GL Paul, and give her my luck after you read this!
-Teknonick AKA Nicky
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Hyperdust
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2014, 05:59:16 AM »

As a long-time RPGer, I'd have to say I would have scrapped these stats by now. Most of them are very limited in how they each work, and are generally only for designing class-specific skills. I'd say that Strength and Endurance are far more guilty of this than Intelligence and Wisdom are, just from what I've seen.

Another thing to note is that these are all passive stats. That is to say, they generate absolutes based on basic numbers associated with each stat: If you get hit, you lose 1200 HP because you're level 8 going against a level 30, etc. Not only does this make no legitimate sense, it also panders to the rock paper scissors issue: rock will always destroy scissors which will in turn always destroy paper, etc. In the same way, you aren't able to move a Boulder at 69 Str because it requires 70 Str, etc. These things make no sense at all to me.

I hope to make a suggestion here as an experienced RPGer: Use active stats that calculate various factors in order to generate complex results which work in tandem with the player's skill.

Let's say, for example, that there is a stat called Athleticism. This is a vague stat, and it's meant to be, for it is a central point for various factors, such as physical strength, balance, lightfootedness (agility), flexibility, stamina per physical action, toughness of skin, bone, muscle, etc, and on and on. When you try to lift a boulder, Athleticism kicks in and begins to register the factors required for the task - how long you can struggle (stam), how much you have to struggle (str), the control you have over your body to perform the task (balance), whether or not you can slip or lose your grip (agi/flex), and on and on - and calculates these factors along with the calculated aid of assisting persons or things (such as ropes and pulleys, or someone else lifting/pushing with you). In this way, Athleticism acts in an active rather than a passive manner, and as such is an active stat.

Other factors would need to exist as well. Concerning the bodies of self and enemies, they all have weaknesses and strengths. Attacking someone in the eye should blind them. Attacking something in the arm should cut their arm off. Attacking the feet should make them trip, while attacking the wings should ground them. Each body part will need its own damage threshold. Certain effects, elemental or otherwise, should alter the damage - if you freeze a limb, it'll break easier; if you burn a limb, water will sting it.


I've grown sick and tired of basic passive stat RPing. Even if you do something to the level of what FF13-2 did as just an add-on, it'll still be better than those ridiculous shape charts.
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Skyscrapers are built up till ya hit the sky.

So what would you call em bein built down? Mantlescrapers?

Ell if I know. I just make em.
Rayblon
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2014, 07:23:31 AM »

I don't believe Paul intends on using a default leveling or XP system at all.

Athleticism isn't terribly realistic because; compare a thief with, say, a miner. If you spend your days picking pockets and running from the guard, odds are you're not very strong, but are fast and have good endurance. The miner on the other hand, would have less endurance/dexterity and more physical strength. It's just how it would work irl.
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pspeed
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2014, 07:55:29 AM »

Yeah, just to confirm.  There is no XP.  No "leveling up" at all.

You will also never really know what the exact number of your stats are and I think I already described that they will almost never be used in isolation.  The boulder is a pretty good example... though frankly there is always a threshold where you aren't strong enough to move something no matter how hard you try.  For example, I cannot lift my car.

You have to have something because there is definitely a difference between a character that sits a a desk reading books all day and one that spends his day throwing large rocks all the time.
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Teknonick
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2014, 09:40:39 AM »

I think you don't understand that STR, DEX, and INT are actually the very basics for everything. Endurance, Constitution, Wisdom... and any other extras you can throw out there just to make things more complicated, but it all comes back to the basics. Endurance is usually your health in games (Unless I've confused it with Constitution), and is very similar to Strength. If you're this little twig with literally no Strength, your Endurance can't be over 9,000, as that just doesn't make sense. How can you take a punch, when you can't even lift a pencil? These are the very basics, and you can't get any more basic than that. You can try, but it's like trying to explain to someone that Atom's are made out of another element even smaller than themselves. You just don't need to go that far.

As for the boulder example... that's not a very good one. Humans all have their limits, and can or can't do certain things. If someone is falling off a cliff, and you try to pull them up, you might not be able to because of your limit. Just because you're ALMOST able to, doesn't mean you ARE able to. You're confusing us with our maximum, and usual strengths. If you're moving furniture in your house, you're going to be using a lot of your strength, but not all of it... even though it feels like you are. A burglar jumps in through a window, and you're suddenly able to flip that couch for cover pretty easily. But the ability to be able to lift that couch and easily flip it is because you actually have 69 strength... not 70. Before you weren't using all 69 points, because if you did, you would probably be damaging yourself in the process. 69 is your limit. You can't lift a house because you think harder... you just can't. There's either you can, or you can't move that boulder.

I agree systems working together to make a boulder work would be cool, but I don't think that it has to go about and bash up the system Paul has thought of. You set your skills, and that system might work in the background. Lift that boulder with your 72 strength, which is going to be hard because you're only 2 points above the MINIMUM. Balance yourself with your 50 Dex, when the minimum is 30, and you might last a little longer. And then die as you attempted lifting a boulder when you were just strong enough to lift it above your head for a few seconds.

IDK. I just can't get over the 69 vs. 70. A minimum is a minimum. If you could lift it at 69, when the minimum is 70, what magical forces are allowing you to do that? Oh right! You're smarter... you have 80 INT, so let's divide that by 10, end up with a +8 booster... and you're suddenly 77 strength, and can lift that just because u ars smrtrt. Um, maybe you know how to hold it better than someone else... but you're not suddenly stronger.
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