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Author Topic: Explanation please...  (Read 7869 times)
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« on: February 05, 2012, 06:27:29 AM »

Paul ,since you're like a pro programmer, mind explain why an AI cannot be made using technology we have now... what are the limitations... Because I had this idea, you program something where you show it something or demonstrate it. For example, you show a computer an apple. You then simply say apple in a few different ways, and maybe show it the apple from a few different angles, the program/AI would then store the apple to memory, so next time you show it an apple it would know... and teach it little by little... One problem I see is teaching it vocab since, you really cannot SHOW or DEMONSTRATE the word THE... But I'm sure you, being a pro programmer and all most likely have a way or an idea


P.S. patent pending
jkz Tongue
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 10:55:05 AM »

This is a pretty huge subject and strikes at the heart of things I've looked at since college.

The problem in your example comes down to knowledge representation.  You show a human an apple and we instinctively know how to isolate that object from the background, think about it's shape, color, feel.  We imagine what it might weigh even without holding it.  We automatically think of things that might be similar given all of those properties.

The computer sees pixels.  All of them, background, hand, etc..  It has no built in ability to detect edges like our eyes have.  It cannot reason about a single thing without reams of programming to "find" the apple in the first place.

This in particular is the study of neural networks.  They try to simulate the pattern matching of our brains but they still do it at a very crude level.  The biological systems we have were honed over hundreds of thousands of years and have lots of built in things that help in sometimes non-obvious ways.

Regarding language learning.  This is also tricky.  As you mention, the computer has no basic architecture to work from.  How would you describe an apple in words that the computer would understand.  There are none.  If you tried to give it some words then you would have to describe those words, too.  There has to be some core knowledge to build from.  In this area, there are some interesting things to look into.  Check out WordNet, AliceBot, Semantic Web and specifically the Dublin core.

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/   If you want to try to reduce text into more understandable concepts then this is an excellent resource.  I've done some playing with this and read several research papers that use this is their foundation.
http://www.alicebot.org/about.html  This seems like sort of a "trick" in that using a simplified rule language you can essentially parrot back ideas to a chatter... but to me it seemed like another excellent way to reduce text into simpler forms that a computer might be able to reason about given something like WordNet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Core  I'm actually not a fan of ontologies but if you already have data mapped this way then it improves your chances with using other approaches.  In the semantic web, presumably a human has already attempted to reduce a document to only "dublin core" related semantics.

(I actually tried this really early in my career, to explain words to a computer through repetitive drill in... trying to zone in some common core knowledge to program.  It was fun to play around with but nothing even close to the awesomeness of WordNet or the completeness of the Dublin Core.)

Having two kids that have some symptoms of being on the autism spectrum, it's been interesting to pull back some of this knowledge and try to apply it to what I see them struggling with.  Something as simple as a single sensory processing issue can have far reaching implications.  For example, we are not born with the ability to pick a single sound out of all of the sounds we are being bombarded with.  When we are born it's just noise and we early on learn to filter and zoom in on specific sounds (hearing the violins in the symphony or your mother's voice in the crowd).  If you delay this ability by even a little bit then it affects everything... not the least of which is language development.  Similar things happen with other senses.  If I point to a toy and the child cannot see an object for the clutter then they have no idea what I'm trying to convey.

Interesting subject.  But yeah, there is a reason this stuff is hard. Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 01:27:29 PM »

And thanks for letting me flex some brain cells that haven't seen use recently. Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 04:43:23 PM »

Yeah... I was reading a story, about some village in Africa, where they do not have a word for left or anything like it... So when scientist hid an object in a room, and told them to find it, it took longer then most humans... Because to turn left he had to turn right 2 times Smiley . Internal language has always puzzled me...
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 04:53:25 PM »

so your saying people who live in villages in Africa cant turn left and therefor cant look left, or that they can look left but then have to turn right twice to move to the object
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Say the opposite of these words:
1)Always.
2)Coming.
3)From.
4)Take.
5)Me.
6)Down.
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 05:10:25 PM »

I read a similar article on language... now I'm trying to remember where.

Ah... http://www.cracked.com/article_18823_5-insane-ways-words-can-control-your-mind.html  It has the exact thing Sleeper was talking about... though is a little clear about the phenomenon.

It also comes up in number understanding.  If a primitive culture has only words for "one", "two", and "many" then that is how they view the world.  They have trouble deciding whether 6 things is more than 5 things... since they are both just "many things" to them.
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randomprofile
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 09:04:49 PM »

yup yup yup Cracked love that site Cheesy
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pspeed
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 09:14:18 PM »

yup yup yup Cracked love that site Cheesy

It is a lot like "crack", though.  I often can't stop clicking on related stories.  Only the fact that I've read most of them now makes me immune. Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 06:31:04 AM »

Yeah me too Sad. It's always hard for me to find a new one now Sad
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