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Author Topic: Thoughts on weapons/armours and most anything else  (Read 14374 times)
Zamorak
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« on: March 11, 2012, 06:39:40 PM »

I really liked the way you could make custom objects, and it inspired a thought about weapons and armours, something I've never seen before. In the game, you could would acquire ores (Not suggesting mining, its just a example) or something and open up a kind of creation menu. The ore or materiral would be represented as blocks (like the custom object thing) and you would literally make your own weapon. Judging by the material (and maybe shape of it?) it would have different effects. For those who like the RPG better than crafting and such, predefined templates could be included. This would be great in my opinion, especially in multiplayer if you have a faction/team based war. Why have just 2 teams with the same exact steel swords, when you could have that guy over there with a blunt sword for up close, your other partner next to you with a huge long sword for hacking apart enemies without getting to close, and you with a nice double edge sword. You've got this nice armour with spikes coming out of the front so you can just run into someone and impale them, this other dude has armour with ridges and such for catching and deflecting swords, that other guy has a chain mail type armour for deflecting arrows. No army would be the same. That would be great in my opinion, but what is your thoughts fellow community members?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 06:41:19 PM by Zamorak » Logged
FutureB
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 07:57:40 PM »

thats how i understand it will be like but to make the spikes on the armour will take practise and maby levels befor you master it ect... and once you have you can literaly make anything. but with swords i understand that there will be a blueprint like menu and it will be to creat the swords mold so you can have it as a huge chuck of square steel or make it into a normal sword or a sword with spikes coming out the side depending on what your wanting Tongue
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pspeed
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 08:02:24 PM »

This kind of flexibility is already in the works.
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Zamorak
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 09:03:56 PM »

Wow, first time the creator of a game this awesome has said something to me. -Fangasm-
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FutureB
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 02:52:54 AM »

^^LOLZ^^
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 07:22:53 AM »

Wow, first time the creator of a game this awesome has said something to me. -Fangasm-

Heheh.  I'm very active in the forum and try to log in to the public game server from time to time.  It's always nice to get feed back and interacting with the players is one of my favorite things.

FutureB has it mostly right.  Where actual "skill" is involved in crafting is still to be determined... and the flexibility in weapons creation all comes down to what I can eke out of the physics engine in terms of weapon behavior.  One combat system I'm prototyping, this is pretty straight forward but may in fact not work out.  (It's cutting-edge experimental stuff but too cool not to try.)

At any rate, I'm 90% sure the physics engine is already giving me what I'd need to determine weapon performance even if I fall back on more cliched "click to roll the dice" style RPG combat (which I hope to avoid for a few reasons).
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Moonkey
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 07:54:26 AM »

How will swinging weapons in the direction of your mouse AND trying to look around with your mouse work? And if you lock-on to one enemy in combat mode but there are more, won't they just kill you until you have to leave combat mode and run away?
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 08:14:04 AM »

My only worry is for people to not create CRAZY armor, like adding a huge tall thingy on the back Smiley
However I would enjoy making something like this
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pspeed
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 08:15:44 AM »

How will swinging weapons in the direction of your mouse AND trying to look around with your mouse work? And if you lock-on to one enemy in combat mode but there are more, won't they just kill you until you have to leave combat mode and run away?

There will definitely not be any sort of "locking on".

Your sorts of questions are precisely why this will be hard to get right and why I want to prototype it to iterate through a few ideas.  I have all of this designed but you sort of have to feel it with the real controls to know if it's working or not.
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Sean
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 01:54:19 PM »

I remember playing an mmorpg called Flyff and whenever I made an upgrade is made to a weapon there is a chance to have a good outcome but also a possibility of a bad outcome. I think it would be cool to see this idea implemented into the game.
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Zamorak
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 02:08:46 PM »

Wow, first time the creator of a game this awesome has said something to me. -Fangasm-

Heheh.  I'm very active in the forum and try to log in to the public game server from time to time.  It's always nice to get feed back and interacting with the players is one of my favorite things.

FutureB has it mostly right.  Where actual "skill" is involved in crafting is still to be determined... and the flexibility in weapons creation all comes down to what I can eke out of the physics engine in terms of weapon behavior.  One combat system I'm prototyping, this is pretty straight forward but may in fact not work out.  (It's cutting-edge experimental stuff but too cool not to try.)

At any rate, I'm 90% sure the physics engine is already giving me what I'd need to determine weapon performance even if I fall back on more cliched "click to roll the dice" style RPG combat (which I hope to avoid for a few reasons).

Best words I've ever heard a game designer say. You sir are awesome, btw, I tried joining the server but whenever I create a account the game crashes.
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pspeed
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 02:09:58 PM »

I remember playing an mmorpg called Flyff and whenever I made an upgrade is made to a weapon there is a chance to have a good outcome but also a possibility of a bad outcome. I think it would be cool to see this idea implemented into the game.

Wherever I can, I will substitute player skill for arbitrary dice rolls.  Which is not to say that I won't do something like what you say but I will try very hard not to.  Crafting something like a sword will be a many step process... where each step can potentially be messed up in small or large ways (if I get it working).  (And note you could always buy some of the parts you need at various quality levels if you don't want to manually craft everything... presuming you can find the right merchant.)  So far, the only place I know I will have to use stats and dice rolls for sure is in stat-balancing.  For example, if your character is very strong and has a lot of manual dexterity then it still will require balancing those competing stats to do something like fine crafting/jewelry making.

And anyway modders can always swap out whatever sub-system I do anyway.  I'm only talking about the base systems I plan to include... but they will be implemented as built in plug-ins that can be swapped out for different plug-ins.
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 02:12:04 PM »

I tried joining the server but whenever I create a account the game crashes.

Please try again.  The server has been getting fouled up a lot lately for some reason.  I reset it about 30-40 minutes ago.

I'm connecting from a lousy hotel wireless connection right now so I'm not in my normal close proximity to the server where I can monitor it all the time.  So of course it picks now to start running out of memory.  Some leak somewhere that I haven't been able to track down yet and suddenly in the last few days has become a real problem.
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 01:47:24 AM »

Can we please for the love of all thats good in gaming not do random roll-like style... Imagine this... you're playing minecraft for 6 hours straight not doing anything stupid so you don't ever die... The gods have smiled upon you and now you're level 50. so you wip out the enchanting table and WAM life slaps you across the face... you got efficiency when you wanted silk touch.
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pspeed
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 03:57:09 AM »

Can we please for the love of all thats good in gaming not do random roll-like style... Imagine this... you're playing minecraft for 6 hours straight not doing anything stupid so you don't ever die... The gods have smiled upon you and now you're level 50. so you wip out the enchanting table and WAM life slaps you across the face... you got efficiency when you wanted silk touch.

Yeah, these things are a cascade problem for me.  I will avoid dice rolls wherever possible.  Otherwise, a dice roll implies some "skill" and a "skill" implies progression (experience) and "progression" implies killing 900 badgers to gain a level.  No, thanks.  Because the other side of the "kill 900 badgers" issue is that badger "drops" have to be so worthless that you don't get rich by killing 900 of them... because I'd obviously have to spawn them pretty frequently.

Where a dice roll will potentially come into play (and I'm not saying it will just that it might) is when a character has recently readjusted their attributes... so maybe they found a way to bump their strength up.  Now any task they perform that requires carefully balancing their strength with their aim (say, pounding some delicate thing with a hammer) may have an extra chance of screwing up a little.  So, if you have just increased your strength then you might want to practice a few times on stuff you don't care about.  Then you're fine and can master craft what you want with confidence.  Any random mistakes after that will be minor and correctable... converging eventually on a 0 chance of mistakes (the master craftsman).

Otherwise, the kinds of things you can screw up are player skill issues.  If you are holding your sword into the forge to start the tempering process it requires it to reach a certain temperature but not go above some other temperature.  This might be indicated by the color of your reticle (the little crosshair cursor thingy).  So you get a feel for what shade of orange it should be before you pull it out or whatever.  Pull it out too soon or too late and you've messed up the temper of the metal and may have to go back to a previous point in the process or melt it all down and start over.  If you even care about properly tempering the blade (speaks to quality and durability).  And the margin of error will be wide enough that it's not overly tricky but does require paying attention.  For example, if you were a really good black smith then you might be able to put a few swords in the fire at once and just keep track of their temperature from time to time to pull them out when appropriate.

A little more on my aversion to dice rolls and the 900 badger problem without going too far off topic... these things tend to shrink a world also.  Too often you end up with the situation where the "town is a safe place" and just outside of town is the "newb monsters" so that you can earn your XP and venture farther out.  Eventually when you are level X you are good enough to venture to the next town without getting mauled by a boar.  It's kind of a trick for places that have relatively small finite worlds because they don't want you to reach the edge too quickly.

I would prefer to let players wander a little more safely.  If you stay to the roads then travel should be relatively safe from creatures because most animals will avoid man unless their forests are over-hunted.  In this kind of system, I'm not always randomly spawning in creatures.  They become (at least collectively) more persistent almost like NPCs.  The smaller vermin (rabbits, squirrels, etc.) are a random function of the quality of the wilderness there.  But a wolf pack is a thing on its own with a life cycle, resource needs, etc... hunting is plentiful and the pack will thrive and never hit the roads.  Hunting is not plentiful (say because the woods is overhunted or because someone burned down most of it) and the wolves start to venture out onto the roads looking for a meal or maybe even heading into to town to steal a chicken or two if they are really hungry.  But because the pack is a "thing" you and a band of adventurers could conceivable go kill them all and now their would be no more wolves in that forest.  Now you have the opposite problem.  The woods is so plentiful with mice, squirrels, rabbits, etc. that they start stripping vegetation, infesting the local villages, eating the crops, etc..

If I had to balance a world like that so that a player could kill 900 badgers then level 50 characters would be neck deep in dead badgers just having walked to the next town.  Again, no thanks. Smiley

Random even more off-topic aside, I'm heavily influenced by a pencil and paper RPG system called Runquest that was out in the 80s and you could find it out of print in the 90s.  It's an experienceless system though it does have buildable skills.  The systems in this game always made so much sense it's affected everything I've done ever sense in some way.  Anyway, I noticed the other day that a few years ago they finally updates and published a new version of this game.  Kind of cool for anyone who wants to get a taste of something different than the complexity of the D&D system ("Wait, what's the effect of my +2 sword on an AC 6 creature when my strength is 18?")
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