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[Rayblon]

So, there are several playable races that are presumably intelligent enough to write; I can only assume that means that, before the races intermingled, they had their own languages. The lore player attribute may award the player with codecs in the beginning to allow them to translate other races' languages, similar to  Final Fantasy X's codecs.

As background, the language of the "Al Bhed" language in Final Fantasy X is completely illegible at first; as you navigate the game, however, you find books that allow you to interpret the audible function of a single letter. The Al Bhed alphabet is fairly similar to the common language, and the codecs are each capable of translating a single letter (I.E: "Y ---> I" "E ---> H"). However, given the nature of the Al Bhed alphabet, each letter requires a larrge tome to explain(which means it takes time to master a single codec piece.

What I was thinking is that there could be a language for each race of intelligent beings(or groups of races) that will be translated based on your race and your known codecs. In addition, there could be a standardized language that the council of origin introduced, which is known to all.

This introduces an interesting element if implemented because not only does it allow people to obfuscate important messages to an extent, but it makes the lore attribute extremely valuable for people that may wish to seek out critical information from a warring race, for example. NPC scholars will also be in high demand if, for instance, you have reason to believe you found a letter discussing the location of something valuable like a large crystal deposit or ruins from a goblin encampment.

[Michael]

Intriguing idea. *presses imaginary 'Like' button*

[Rayblon]

Also maybe server owners (or guilds/towns?) could create their own codecs and languages.

One thing I forgot to mention is that you would be able to toggle between writing in different languages you have complete codec libraries for (it would appear as the true text as you write too, ofc).

[pspeed]

I know I want to have language be a part of the game but it's unclear to what extent.  The problem is that I may know a little too much about what it takes to make a fake language (enough to see that it's really hard) but not enough to actually do it for real.  And simple word substitution feels like cheating to me now.  (plus, players would rapidly learn to translate on the fly anyway.)

At any rate, language is one of those things that affects everything.  Properly done, it affects the random character names, the random town names... heck, even the names of garments and tools are affected by language.  I kind of had to decide to ignore language early on other than a few token gestures (like the two sets of month names).  I have thought about it, though.

As an aside reference, there was this reply to another topic:
http://mythruna.com/forum/index.php?topic=1627.msg15056#msg15056

With this:

This is just from my rough notes, loosely reworked into narrative.  It originally flipped back and forth between character monolog and book-style explanation.  Maybe it will end up in an in-game book somewhere.

It's very interesting.  There is a form of reptilian poetry/philosophy called "talgarin".
The "poems" or "tralga" consist of rigidly structured two word statements
where the first two statements seem unrelated or contradictory but the
last ties them together in some enlightening way.  Rarely, they may also
be logical progressions but these tend to be reserved for specific sub-forms.

Some examples:
The whispers are patient.
Death is patient.
They meet in the dark.

The world is large.
The body is small.
The mind is infinite.

The sun scorches.
The waters cool.
Life emerges.

The clever student may notice that all of these phrases have more than two
words.  That is true in English but is not true in reptilian where subjects and
verbs are both heavily conjugated.  Talgarin works with all simple/regular reptilian
verb forms and the irregular verbs are not used in talgarin.

So, for example, in the first case "the whispers" is one word in reptilian
as is "are patient"... which is the same as "is patient" in this case which forms
a stricter mode of talgarin which is not discussed here.

"They meet in the dark" is trickier in english because the literal translation
is "in-darkness" "they meet"... both of which are single word conjugations.
 
In fact, "darkness" is not a literal translation either but we lack a word for
"night tinged with evil" and so "darkness" is used as a weaker translation without
implying additional unintended specificity or ambiguity.

Interestingly, the second example is actually the strictest form of talgarin
called "Tralshik" (rough phoenetic approximation).  World, body, and mind are
all very specific concepts in reptilian but they all stem from the same word
structure.  The words for all three are slight conjugations of a core element
and are tough to translate.  The poor translation is "life holder" with variations
on "life holder we live in", "life holder we are", "life holder that holds what
we are" for "world", "mind", and "body" respectively.

Furthmore, "large", "small", and "infinite" are just word modifiers.  So in
"Tralshik", the tralga are simple three word truths conjugated around a single
principle.

An example of progressive tralshik, and probably my favorite:
Limit the mind.
Limit the body.
Limit the world.

This tralshik serves as an example of the cultural understanding necessary to
truly interpret a tralga.  To the human reader, this may seem as motivational
inspiration but is in fact the opposite.  This is actually a recipe for a clean life
and is another example of where a word ("limit" in this case) cannot be directly
translated.

Some random examples while I'm here thinking of them:

Thirst burns.
The mouth is dry.
Blood runs warm.

I have spent hours contemplating the deeper meanings of that one.

(insert more examples and commentary here)

My favorite part of this sort of poetry is how it hints at a deeper and broader culture than
we generally see in the primitive reptilians of today.  It's really quite stunning that they've
passed this linguistic beauty down through millennia of what we might conceitedly call social decline.  A
testament to the resilience of their people, I think.  Perhaps also a hint at their general patience
as a species.

[ebag51]

This is an awesome idea Rayblon. Good job. 

[ebag51]

Also Paul when Mythruna hits alpha, you might have enough money by then to hire someone to make fake languages for your game.

[Rayblon]

I know I want to have language be a part of the game but it's unclear to what extent.  The problem is that I may know a little too much about what it takes to make a fake language (enough to see that it's really hard) but not enough to actually do it for real.  And simple word substitution feels like cheating to me now.  (plus, players would rapidly learn to translate on the fly anyway.)

At any rate, language is one of those things that affects everything.  Properly done, it affects the random character names, the random town names... heck, even the names of garments and tools are affected by language.  I kind of had to decide to ignore language early on other than a few token gestures (like the two sets of month names).  I have thought about it, though.

I forgot to mention that in my idea the letter substitution  for the main languages would be randomized per-seed. However, it should be noted that while the Al Bhed alphabet may make a name look like "CEINE", the pronunciation is entirely different, because the alphabet really is entirely different, rather than the logic of the language.

The way I see it, the only real way to make language in the game flexible and completely accessible to players is through randomization like that. Off the top of my head, there are about 4 languages with almost identical grammar to English (Afrikaans, Norwegian, Swedish, and the lesser known cousin of english called Frisian). I know that because one of my friends in particular is a bit of a language buff... and he never stops talking about it. ;-;

But yeah, my point is if the language is limited somehow to a set vocabulary , then it's not terribly accessible, and that can be a little frustrating sometimes. I'm saying that because it's impossible to account for every word and altering grammatical structure is near impossible for a computer to do right, given how people mangle english as it is. The way I see it, either language is accessible as frisian constructs or it's not. While names may be a tad different, I don't see any other options that really make language part of the interactive experience.

Just my two cents.