Mythruna

Development => Concepts => Topic started by: pspeed on October 01, 2012, 05:22:34 PM



Title: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on October 01, 2012, 05:22:34 PM
Many are familiar already with my negative thoughts on "skill levels" and "experience".  Crafting and related skills are one area where this made me the most uncomfortable.  

From a meta-level, levels and skill trees play an important role in tying the world together.  They are the reason that training/masters exist.  They provide a purpose for guilds, etc..  They also give players something more obvious to strive for if they are still struggling to figure out "what next?"  So aside from all of the unfun aspects of skill levels there is some benefit here.

The other side of it is the raw self-sufficient side.  Your character can do any skill for which they have the proper tool and upgrading the tools will upgrade the skill.  This is the direction I had been leaning because it greatly fits in with my general ideas on character development.  However, this also had some glaring problems.  For one, to learn even a handful of skills you'd end up having to carry around a whole pack of specialized tools.  For another, it's completely non-obvious what skills are available and how to even do them once a tool has been acquired.  And finally, there is no "in" for how you'd get access to fixed facilities like smelters, forges, anvils, etc. that you could not afford or easily build yourself.

Also, the thing that really bugged me about that is that it goes against everything else I've designed with respect to physical items.  Skinning an animal shouldn't require a special "skinning tool" if you already have the right-sized sharp knife in your belt.  Nor should carving your own arrow shafts, etc... a sharp knife is a sharp knife.

These things have really bothered me.  One danger of total flexibility is that a majority of players will just find the game baffling without hitting 5 video tutorials and a few wikis.  As a game developer, I see that kind of as a sign of failure.  Beyond some simple initial learning curves, the tenacious player should be able to find what they need in game.

It also makes the world seem separate and sort of "dead".  Too much encouragement on being a lone-wolf and there is little other ways to play without working really hard.  And you miss creating relationships with NPCs which will make the game feel more alive, to me.

So, to balance...

Skills

Skills will be learnable things.  Many of them will not be hard to learn.  Some will require other skills to be learned first.  Maybe you get taught by a local trainer, or a merchant, or... a crafting guild.

A skill is either learned or not.  There are no "skill levels" though there may be specializations.  For example, an unskilled person hacking at a dead deer will probably get some meat and skin but anyone with basic training can skin a deer and successfully get basically everything of use off of the carcass.  That being said, skinning a mouse and skinning a giant lizard are very different things for which specialization in a follow-on skill will be useful.

This serves a few purposes right off the bat.  For one, it ties skills into the world.  You not only learn a skill but you now know where to buy supplies, you get some idea of what the next skills available might be, etc..  Also, there are now quest opportunities just like anything else.  Maybe the trainer doesn't care about your gold and needs some job done.  Maybe the guild doesn't charge money at all but requires you to work for the guild for some period of time.  Maybe another player can teach you the skill but wants you to come on a dungeon run with them first.

This also explains where you would get access to facilities.  If you join the blacksmith's guild then there is a logical place for you to rent, buy, or borrow equipment.  Perhaps some guilds even have some low-quality equipment to use when you are starting out.  You can also get a line on where to sell your products without opening your own store, potentially even just getting deals to include your goods in regular town exports without having to worry about those dealings yourself.

Skill Journal

This will be where the player can see the skills that they've acquired.  This can have brief descriptions on how to use the particular skill, what general equipment is required, where the skill was trained, etc..  If you come back to try to use a skill six months later, this will be helpful as a refresher.

In my imagination, this is treated like a narrative written by the character as if they were writing in their journal.  A special button would take them to a game mechanics description for the skill.  Less jarring to immersion that way and I like the idea of character-written journals in general if I can make it work and not look stupid.

Boostrap Skills

During character creation, the player will be able to choose some number of bootstrap skills.  These will be skills that require no prerequisite skills (or the prereqs are bootstrap skills) and can be done with just the equipment carried, ie: they require no guild or facilities.

For example, skinning, tracking, basic weapon repair (sharpening, etc.), basic amor repair (banging out dents, etc.), foraging, and so on as just a few off the top of my head.  So as an example, if the player starts with three skill slots they could load them up with skinning, and two skinning specializations.  Or skinning, tracking, foraging.  And so on.

This prevents the player from choosing initial skills that may take a long time before they are useful.  A player who loads up on smelting and leather-tanning skills will be pretty disappointed when none of the nearby towns have the right equipment or stores.  And besides, you wouldn't even know where to go to know what you need to find.

Other than taking up skill slots, skills will also come with their basic tools... this will be automatically deducted from the character's starting gold.  This encourages the starting character to pick complementary skills.  For example, basic skinning and fletching could both require a sharp knife... but you only need one knife for both skills so you save some gold to use on other equipment.

Reentry
So without having to go into specifics on how the systems will work, that is the high-level framework that I'll be working from.  It's nice because a lot of questions have been answered in my mind and it helps tie a bunch of stuff together.  The bonus is that it adds a whole other set of quest sources.

I've also been designing the character creation process so this answers a bunch of questions about that, too.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: FutureB on October 01, 2012, 06:43:19 PM
so does this mean that there wont be "levels" for say armor making. so people cant boast in other games like oh im 99 smelting 84 fletching 66 woodcutting ect...  one other thing in some games success rate of say smelting iron increases as you level and become more experienced would anything like this happen or would just your rate of creating these items increase but the success rate stays similar and realistic
:p


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Iggyjeckel on October 01, 2012, 06:44:05 PM
Sounds very nice, thanks for update. Ill read through it 5 or 6 more times then if I have any questions ill post em, but sounds pretty well thought out


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on October 01, 2012, 07:16:36 PM
I'll post a more thought-out reply in the morning, but for now i just want to say this design looks foolproof, and thanks for the update! I check these forums everyday for posts like this :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on October 01, 2012, 07:54:45 PM
so does this mean that there wont be "levels" for say armor making. so people cant boast in other games like oh im 99 smelting 84 fletching 66 woodcutting ect...  one other thing in some games success rate of say smelting iron increases as you level and become more experienced would anything like this happen or would just your rate of creating these items increase but the success rate stays similar and realistic
:p

No levels.  You can smelt iron or you can't.  Iron smelting may be the prerequisite for some other metallurgy skills.  And on that note, there is a difference between smithing a horse shoe and smithing a blade.

I've been over the XP problem before but I think it creates more problems than it solves.  It makes a game more tedious and destroys everything else that could be cool... whether killing 400 badgers or making 400 bows.  For example, if you have to make 400 bows just to get good at it then bow-making needs to be trivially simple and bows have to be worth only pennies or every bow-maker would get rich just trying to get good at it.  Lame all the way around, in my opinion.

And frankly, now that I've held this position for some time and started to look around at the real world... there are many trainable skills, very specific trainable skills, that just don't improve that much once you know what you are doing.  There are only so many different ways to dig a ditch or lay concrete... or smelt iron.  Once you've trained and done it once successfully there isn't much room for improvement.  If we each took a class on carving arrow shafts I bet once we graduated that we'd all make arrows just fine.  Only our speed would improve with practice... and considering we are super beings, time is accelerated, etc..  It's reasonable to think that if you deep-train our characters on some specific skill that they've pretty much got it.  Certainly after you've made three of anything.

Anyway, you will find that wherever possible, I will replace a raw number with something more meaningful.  So no skill levels.  At best, as discussed in some other posts, you may have a three use tool adjustment period when you swap out one tool for another... but right now I'm considering the tool you trained on as "already learned" when you acquire a skill.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on October 01, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
Hmm... Let's say you have a smith shop. And you wanted to make a specific sword. Would you buy a mold from a molder? And let's say you could make your own molds. Would you be able to sell them to other smiths that had a high demand in long-swords and watch them use your mold?


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on October 01, 2012, 09:31:23 PM
Hmm... Let's say you have a smith shop. And you wanted to make a specific sword. Would you buy a mold from a molder? And let's say you could make your own molds. Would you be able to sell them to other smiths that had a high demand in long-swords and watch them use your mold?

Sure.  You may be oversimplifying sword-making but to the extent that there are molds then they should be marketable in both directions.  The trick will be determining their value.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: FutureB on October 01, 2012, 09:51:45 PM
That sounds great..... i cant wait to playyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahhaha keep working hard paul xD


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on October 02, 2012, 04:06:58 AM
That sounds great..... i cant wait to playyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahhaha keep working hard paul xD
Ditto


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BenKenobiWan on October 02, 2012, 12:05:45 PM
Hmm... Let's say you have a smith shop. And you wanted to make a specific sword. Would you buy a mold from a molder? And let's say you could make your own molds. Would you be able to sell them to other smiths that had a high demand in long-swords and watch them use your mold?
Molds are used for bronze, copper, etc.
For iron and steel it might be more of a blueprint, or a sample blade for the smith to replicate and improve.


From what you (Paul) said it seems like you might oversimplify skills by missing some sub-skills. For example, if you can make a bow out of maple, you might be able to make on from yew, but it wouldn't be very good unless you either got lucky or learned a few trade secrets. Little things like that could be easy to overlook.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on October 02, 2012, 12:13:46 PM
Hmm... Let's say you have a smith shop. And you wanted to make a specific sword. Would you buy a mold from a molder? And let's say you could make your own molds. Would you be able to sell them to other smiths that had a high demand in long-swords and watch them use your mold?
Molds are used for bronze, copper, etc.
For iron and steel it might be more of a blueprint, or a sample blade for the smith to replicate and improve.


From what you (Paul) said it seems like you might oversimplify skills by missing some sub-skills. For example, if you can make a bow out of maple, you might be able to make on from yew, but it wouldn't be very good unless you either got lucky or learned a few trade secrets. Little things like that could be easy to overlook.

Adjusting to different woods kind of pails in comparison to learning a craft from scratch.  I know that maple carves different than poplar but it only took a little bit of time to adjust how I worked the wood.  A teeny tiny fraction of the time it took to learn to carve anything in the first place.

And if you are referring to how the different woods have to be conditioned maybe?  (you will need to be more specific for me to answer specifically) ...then that's a player experience thing and not necessarily a skill.  If every bow you make snaps under use then you figure out that you did something wrong in the overall construction.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on October 02, 2012, 12:22:10 PM
what we are discussing makes me want to play this game!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on October 02, 2012, 12:25:34 PM
what we are discussing makes me want to play this game!

Me too!  I hope the lazy developer finishes it soon. :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BenKenobiWan on October 02, 2012, 01:00:25 PM
Adjusting to different woods kind of pails in comparison to learning a craft from scratch.  I know that maple carves different than poplar but it only took a little bit of time to adjust how I worked the wood.  A teeny tiny fraction of the time it took to learn to carve anything in the first place.

And if you are referring to how the different woods have to be conditioned maybe?  (you will need to be more specific for me to answer specifically) ...then that's a player experience thing and not necessarily a skill.  If every bow you make snaps under use then you figure out that you did something wrong in the overall construction.
In the example of making bows, some woods you have to only use the inner wood or only the outer wood. Some it doesn't matter. Yew, I know, works best (or only works) when you have the outer wood on the front of the bow and the inner wood on the inside. For their compressing/stretching resistance.

But, come to think of it, these wouldn't need to be separate skills. Just little tidbits of player knowledge. Regardless of my bad example, I do hope you take care to keep the skills and sub-skills appropriate.

I have faith in you, Paul!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on October 02, 2012, 02:03:10 PM
what we are discussing makes me want to play this game!

Me too!  I hope the lazy developer finishes it soon. :)
haha he's taking his time to do it right i bet


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on October 02, 2012, 06:07:41 PM
what we are discussing makes me want to play this game!

Me too!  I hope the lazy developer finishes it soon. :)

Don't finish soon! Take your time! 2 reasons:
1.) other people can find it at pre-alpha stage :)
2.) I can help you and get credit :) (5%-10% its a start)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on October 02, 2012, 06:12:36 PM
what we are discussing makes me want to play this game!

Me too!  I hope the lazy developer finishes it soon. :)

Don't finish soon! Take your time! 2 reasons:
1.) other people can find it at pre-alpha stage :)
2.) I can help you and get credit :) (5%-10% its a start)

I guess we'll have a better idea how long that will be when you get to 1%.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on October 02, 2012, 06:25:06 PM
xD
*laughs uncontrolably*
I'm trying I really am!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on October 02, 2012, 06:28:58 PM
Don't finish soon! Take your time! 2 reasons:
1.) other people can find it at pre-alpha stage :)
2.) I can help you and get credit :) (5%-10% its a start)
lol of all the reasons he shld take his time i dont think these are the highest priorities.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on October 02, 2012, 06:29:59 PM
Don't finish soon! Take your time! 2 reasons:
1.) other people can find it at pre-alpha stage :)
2.) I can help you and get credit :) (5%-10% its a start)
lol of all the reasons he shld take his time i dont think these are the highest priorities.
Ya sure? No.2 is the most important ;) I NEEDA STOP DREAMN' and START DOIN'!!!! *rage quits*


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on October 02, 2012, 10:56:47 PM
MIND MANIPULATION BEGINNING NOW. . .


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ap0r on October 03, 2012, 06:21:55 AM
Unnatural, how old are you?


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BenKenobiWan on October 03, 2012, 12:45:41 PM
He's 12.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on October 03, 2012, 01:53:08 PM
He's 12.
Correct!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ap0r on October 03, 2012, 01:56:40 PM
That explains so many things... lmao


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on October 03, 2012, 02:24:43 PM
Unnatural, how old are you?
Call me Unn, I feel more respected, and its easier(shorter) for you to type ;)
   I asked my grandmother for her to get me Minecraft today, she denied :(

I will convince her one day! :D she's CHEAP! (money wise)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on October 03, 2012, 02:50:01 PM
Unnatural, how old are you?
Call me Unn, I feel more respected, and its easier(shorter) for you to type ;)
   I asked my grandmother for her to get me Minecraft today, she denied :(

I will convince her one day! :D she's CHEAP! (money wise)
I played a cracked free version before i bought it awhile back. that version should still be somewhere...
not that i'm suggesting you do something "illegal" or anything...  ;)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: dfirehawkc on November 09, 2012, 04:43:50 PM
What if, instead of levels which require xp, you had proficiencies involving an amount of times you performed x skill.  Because, even though you might "learn" a skill, doesn't mean your good at it.  If you learn the skill to make a bow, you might make it good one time and completely ruin it the next.  But through practice (number of times performed) you gain proficiency.  A master bowmaker would make much better bows, maybe even with added bonuses or properties, which an apprentice bowmaker would not.  This gives incentive for players to improve certain skills.  Obviously some skills would not require a proficiency, they can just be learned.....but for some, this would be a cool feature.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on November 09, 2012, 05:34:17 PM
What if, instead of levels which require xp, you had proficiencies involving an amount of times you performed x skill.  Because, even though you might "learn" a skill, doesn't mean your good at it.  If you learn the skill to make a bow, you might make it good one time and completely ruin it the next.  But through practice (number of times performed) you gain proficiency.  A master bowmaker would make much better bows, maybe even with added bonuses or properties, which an apprentice bowmaker would not.  This gives incentive for players to improve certain skills.  Obviously some skills would not require a proficiency, they can just be learned.....but for some, this would be a cool feature.
i think he's trying to keep away from the "skyrim" system thats like that.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Iggyjeckel on November 09, 2012, 06:26:36 PM
And also, you can pound on a piece of metal 100 times, it still doesnt make it a sword

Unless trained you cannot know the ways to do things, im making sense to myself I swear lol


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on November 09, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
What if, instead of levels which require xp, you had proficiencies involving an amount of times you performed x skill.  Because, even though you might "learn" a skill, doesn't mean your good at it.  If you learn the skill to make a bow, you might make it good one time and completely ruin it the next.  But through practice (number of times performed) you gain proficiency.  A master bowmaker would make much better bows, maybe even with added bonuses or properties, which an apprentice bowmaker would not.  This gives incentive for players to improve certain skills.  Obviously some skills would not require a proficiency, they can just be learned.....but for some, this would be a cool feature.

If you actually learn how to make a bow then you can make it every time.  In real life, once you make a bow the first time then you pretty much know how to do it.  You might get faster/better at it within some amount but you will never "fail" to make a bow. 

It is more likely that once you've learned how to make a basic bow that you might learn things you can add or do differently.  A master bow maker will make better bows because he knows much more than just how to make a simple bow.

There will be other ways to improve yourself that won't make you sit there doing one thing over and over 1000 times.  That doesn't really sound like fun to me and I don't know why we let our games make us do that.  It also leads to other sort of ridiculous behavior like running and jumping everywhere you go to improve your athletics and agility skills (I'm looking at you Oblivion :)).

Worst of all, if you had to make 100 bows just to get good at making bows then those bows basically need to be nearly worthless or the whole game economy gets destroyed.  So either you make player-made stuff worth a tiny fraction of regular equipment (I've seen some games do this) or you make the markup at stores so high that regular loot is nearly worthless (I've seen games do this, too).  There are few alternatives.

I don't want to do that.  If you kill a bunch of creatures and lug all of their equipment back to town (an undertaking in and of itself) then it should at least be worth the scrap material.  So frustrating to have a game where a sword only sells for 1 or 2 gold just so that you don't get rich creature-farming.

The whole "XP" problem is insidious and negatively affects every other system... all based on the assumption that it was required in the first place.  And really, most of the people I know personally who really love that sort of thing are the ones that are trying to scam every point they can and maximize their builds to gain some game-balance advantage.

Sorry to ramble but this is something that I feel very strongly about.  My approach is somewhat of an experiment because I've never really seen it done before but I'm not ready to compromise on the idea until flops or something. :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on November 27, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
ok i just re-read this thread because i wanted to make sure i remembered how you were doing training right. and i hope i understand it right cuz if i do... wow.

So have you put any programming into this yet? or has your time been too filled with physics engines and whatnot


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on November 27, 2012, 07:36:58 PM
ok i just re-read this thread because i wanted to make sure i remembered how you were doing training right. and i hope i understand it right cuz if i do... wow.

So have you put any programming into this yet? or has your time been too filled with physics engines and whatnot

No real programming yet.  The skill tree is not hard nor are the trappings (help screens, etc.)   All of the time will be spent in the actual crafting interfaces (where appropriate).

I have some simple crafts that I may add that don't really require any special interface.  That would let me test the skill tree and get that working before tackling the more complicated parts.  It would also give people a feel for how that will work.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on November 28, 2012, 05:51:32 AM
ok i just re-read this thread because i wanted to make sure i remembered how you were doing training right. and i hope i understand it right cuz if i do... wow.

So have you put any programming into this yet? or has your time been too filled with physics engines and whatnot

No real programming yet.  The skill tree is not hard nor are the trappings (help screens, etc.)   All of the time will be spent in the actual crafting interfaces (where appropriate).

I have some simple crafts that I may add that don't really require any special interface.  That would let me test the skill tree and get that working before tackling the more complicated parts.  It would also give people a feel for how that will work.
That sounds like it would be fun to test. whats the next hardest thing to code after physics?


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on November 28, 2012, 12:34:37 PM
That sounds like it would be fun to test. whats the next hardest thing to code after physics?

AI.  Definitely AI.  When I have those two things mostly done, I will feel a huge sigh of relief.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on November 28, 2012, 01:23:09 PM
That sounds like it would be fun to test. whats the next hardest thing to code after physics?

AI.  Definitely AI.  When I have those two things mostly done, I will feel a huge sigh of relief.
i've heard AI can be very tricky. but no doubt you'll get the hang of it   :) you'll need to make good AI if you want to pull off some of the things youve been saying


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on November 29, 2012, 11:23:00 PM
That sounds like it would be fun to test. whats the next hardest thing to code after physics?

AI.  Definitely AI.  When I have those two things mostly done, I will feel a huge sigh of relief.
i've heard AI can be very tricky. but no doubt you'll get the hang of it   :) you'll need to make good AI if you want to pull off some of the things youve been saying
It's very tricky indeed. Like when you add an enemy to fend itself from bears, but then it gets attacked from something else you didn't script it to attack. But what you were too ignorant to notice was that you could've made it aggressive to everything except it's own kind. <:/...


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: JKybett on December 08, 2012, 12:48:12 PM
With the skills that have prerequisite skills; how specific would the prerequisites be?
For example: would I have to learn to carve wood before I can learn to carve a bow; or would I have to learn different aspects of cooking or could I just learn to cook and be able to throw a chicken onto a fire as easily as stuff it, season it and slow spit-roast it? (Just examples, I'm not expecting to have to season my food)

and, what sort of skills would you not need to learn, for example I saw horse-riding mentioned somewhere. Would we innately be able to ride a horse and fire a bow while standing in the saddle or would we have to learn to ride first or learn to ride and then learn to ride whilst handling weaponry?

FYI, It annoys me that I, in real life, can't ride a horse but game characters seem to have a natural, unexplained gift for it :L


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Iggyjeckel on December 08, 2012, 01:09:41 PM
Im guessing game riding bow shooting horsemen would jave to be learned lol


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: JKybett on December 08, 2012, 01:23:02 PM
You say that, and I really hope so but I've played games before where it's an inherit skill and I've just been like "Whuuuu?!"


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Iggyjeckel on December 08, 2012, 01:32:21 PM
Pretty sure this on will not be one of those games lol



Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on December 08, 2012, 01:45:35 PM
Ah, I have expanded my knowledge by i would say 20% since i came to Mythruna, thank you all :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: JKybett on December 08, 2012, 02:27:26 PM
Always good to learn. :L


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on December 08, 2012, 02:47:44 PM
With the skills that have prerequisite skills; how specific would the prerequisites be?
For example: would I have to learn to carve wood before I can learn to carve a bow; or would I have to learn different aspects of cooking or could I just learn to cook and be able to throw a chicken onto a fire as easily as stuff it, season it and slow spit-roast it? (Just examples, I'm not expecting to have to season my food)

and, what sort of skills would you not need to learn, for example I saw horse-riding mentioned somewhere. Would we innately be able to ride a horse and fire a bow while standing in the saddle or would we have to learn to ride first or learn to ride and then learn to ride whilst handling weaponry?

FYI, It annoys me that I, in real life, can't ride a horse but game characters seem to have a natural, unexplained gift for it :L

I think pretty much anything that I can tie to a skill, I will.  Horse riding will definitely be a skill.  A lot of skills will be like that: can I do it or not? kind of thing.

For example, maybe there is some kind of skill for "efficient carrying" where the weight of your equipment doesn't fatigue you as fast in normal walking or something.  I don't mind adding all kinds of these sorts of skills since they are essentially free for me and allow a person to customize their character more.

I will make skill requisites as granular as necessary to make sense.  There also will then probably be skills you pick up automatically as part of learning something else.  So example, if you learn to carve a bow then you automatically pick up a basic spoke-shave use skill that might make some other skill easier to learn but otherwise isn't a learnable skill on its own.  That sort of depends on how I end up calculating training time and costs.  No reason to have those skills if they don't factor into anything.  It may be that not having one of these types of prereqs doubles the training cost or something.

Keep in mind that you will also start with some skills that you can select at character creation time.  So the more granular and numerous the basic skills are, the more initial slots I will give people so that they can make a functioning adult.  You don't want to say things like "Well, my 32 old elf can't read or write because I taught him to swim and ride a horse instead."  These are unreasonable trade-offs.

I think cooking will be a skill.  I don't know how it will work in game yet.  I've known enough people who never learned to cook to know that asking some random person to cook a chicken over a fire is not going to work out well in general.  A decent cook who has never cooked over fire will probably make raw-in-the-middle or thoroughly burned chicken-leather like that.  It may seem silly that your character would never know how to make basic meals but it happens in real life... and if your character has been really obsessed with a completely different kind of skill set then it is reasonable to think that he/she must rely on others for cooking.  I think it adds color to the adventures.  And if factors over into the NPCs, also.  If you are escorting some spoiled rich merchant's son across the wilderness, chances are you are going to have to cook for him.

All that being said, I will keep granularity reasonable.  A skill you can learn in five minutes + some personal experimenting is not a skill at all.  So, for example, I'm going to assume that any Mythrunian that has reached adulthood can figure out flint and steel if it is handed to them and a basic demonstration given.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: JKybett on December 08, 2012, 04:42:16 PM
Horse riding will definitely be a skill.
YAY!
I don't mind adding all kinds of these sorts of skills since they are essentially free for me and allow a person to customize their character more.
This bit's just made me realise, you could introduce new skills much more smoothly than other games, you won't get that Runescape style "Hey, I can now put these together and do this. Couldn't do that yesterday :S" thing. As you need to go learn the skill it will be like masters of a particular skill have just moved into the world rather than your character apparently discovering skills your character seems to have picked up while you're offline.
It may be that not having one of these types of prereqs doubles the training cost or something.
Good idea, hadn't thought of this but it makes sense. Noone's going to teach someone who's never touched the tools before how to become a master for the same price as teaching someone who's almost there. Makes sense.
Well, my 32 old elf can't read or write because I taught him to swim and ride a horse instead.
Does this mean that reading and writing and swimming will be learnable skills? I would think that reading and writing would be something that the player's literacy would cover and surely the illiteracy of the general population would make petitioning more difficult, not to mention keeping citizens of a town/city informed on the community's news. It's good to think that swimming isn't innate though, makes ships and boats more logical.
I think cooking will be a skill...
...It may seem silly that your character would never know how to make basic meals but it happens in real life... and if your character has been really obsessed with a completely different kind of skill set then it is reasonable to think that he/she must rely on others for cooking.
Makes sense, it would also mean that owning a bakery or similar business would make more sense.
I think it adds color to the adventures.  And if factors over into the NPCs, also.  If you are escorting some spoiled rich merchant's son across the wilderness, chances are you are going to have to cook for him.
Again, good idea. It's always seemed too simple when, in RPGs, you're told to escort someone and you only have to get from A to B without them dying.
All that being said, I will keep granularity reasonable.  A skill you can learn in five minutes + some personal experimenting is not a skill at all.  So, for example, I'm going to assume that any Mythrunian that has reached adulthood can figure out flint and steel if it is handed to them and a basic demonstration given.
Makes sense, you don't want to have to spend ages finding someone willing to teach you the obvious, although I think firemaking could be something you could improve on ingame. E.g. maybe it can be easier to get a proper fire going, or you can make a longer-lasting fire if you're learnt how. I think pretty much anything the boyscouts have a badge for would make sense as a skill. :L


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on December 08, 2012, 06:28:29 PM
Makes sense, you don't want to have to spend ages finding someone willing to teach you the obvious, although I think firemaking could be something you could improve on ingame. E.g. maybe it can be easier to get a proper fire going, or you can make a longer-lasting fire if you're learnt how. I think pretty much anything the boyscouts have a badge for would make sense as a skill. :L

Yeah... some skills will be easy to pick up, too.  But if I hand you flint and steal and some cotton wool and show you how to spark and light it... you can now light a basic fire.

Note that some things will also be covered by the player's skill.  The actual construction of a real camp fire might just be something the player has to do and learn.  Adding the wood at the right times.  Basic "cook meat over fire" may be similar... not a learned skill but an experimented skill.  ie: everyone can do it if they know how.  "Learning the skill" in these cases may just be "getting the recipe".

When you asked the question I was kind of on the fence about cooking... and now I remember why.  Like smithing, a baking skill might give you extra "senses" that let you know when you are supposed to do stuff (you can see somehow when the batter is mixed right or has risen enough to beat down again or whatever) but you might technically be able to do some of the steps without having specifically "learned" them if you just get lucky or learn the timings.  We'll see.

The more "physically" based I can make the world the better in the long run and the more it opens up potential for player conceived in-game optimizations that I didn't think of.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on December 08, 2012, 07:15:44 PM
can't wait for some skills to be implemented. just to see how you're gonna go about it.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: JKybett on December 15, 2012, 08:28:19 AM
Would instrument playing be possible as a skill?


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on December 15, 2012, 10:31:45 AM
Would instrument playing be possible as a skill?

I hope so.  That's perhaps tougher than regular skills but we'll see.  Being a musician myself and knowing several "bard" type people, it's always in the back of my mind... but no promises. :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BigredRm on December 15, 2012, 12:33:27 PM
Makes sense, you don't want to have to spend ages finding someone willing to teach you the obvious, although I think firemaking could be something you could improve on ingame. E.g. maybe it can be easier to get a proper fire going, or you can make a longer-lasting fire if you're learnt how. I think pretty much anything the boyscouts have a badge for would make sense as a skill. :L

Yeah... some skills will be easy to pick up, too.  But if I hand you flint and steal and some cotton wool and show you how to spark and light it... you can now light a basic fire.

Note that some things will also be covered by the player's skill.  The actual construction of a real camp fire might just be something the player has to do and learn.  Adding the wood at the right times.  Basic "cook meat over fire" may be similar... not a learned skill but an experimented skill.  ie: everyone can do it if they know how.  "Learning the skill" in these cases may just be "getting the recipe".

When you asked the question I was kind of on the fence about cooking... and now I remember why.  Like smithing, a baking skill might give you extra "senses" that let you know when you are supposed to do stuff (you can see somehow when the batter is mixed right or has risen enough to beat down again or whatever) but you might technically be able to do some of the steps without having specifically "learned" them if you just get lucky or learn the timings.  We'll see.

The more "physically" based I can make the world the better in the long run and the more it opens up potential for player conceived in-game optimizations that I didn't think of.
+1 like a mofo


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on December 15, 2012, 01:27:16 PM
Would instrument playing be possible as a skill?

I hope so.  That's perhaps tougher than regular skills but we'll see.  Being a musician myself and knowing several "bard" type people, it's always in the back of my mind... but no promises. :)
at first i thought you said ''bird'' not ''bard'' at first, because my friend knows how to do amazing bird calls, its unbelievable.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: JKybett on December 16, 2012, 12:34:51 PM
OMFG that'll be cool.
I wanna be able to play some tunes while walking from one place to another :L


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: danny on January 24, 2013, 05:49:56 AM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on January 24, 2013, 09:58:59 AM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.

Yes, I will incorporate player skill wherever possible.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on January 24, 2013, 03:29:41 PM
But we should also make it to where the players who aren't so great with games have the possibility of creating a good weapon. Which the system "Easy,Medium,Hard" comes into play. Haha.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on January 24, 2013, 04:14:51 PM
But we should also make it to where the players who aren't so great with games have the possibility of creating a good weapon. Which the system "Easy,Medium,Hard" comes into play. Haha.

Or you buy the parts you have trouble making.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: danny on January 24, 2013, 04:24:19 PM
Awesome.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on January 25, 2013, 12:54:23 PM
But we should also make it to where the players who aren't so great with games have the possibility of creating a good weapon. Which the system "Easy,Medium,Hard" comes into play. Haha.

Or you buy the parts you have trouble making.
^ this. if you suck at doing the player input crafting skills, do easy casual-player quests or even other activities that they *can* do, and use the money to buy what they can't do. i love that.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on January 25, 2013, 01:06:14 PM
But we should also make it to where the players who aren't so great with games have the possibility of creating a good weapon. Which the system "Easy,Medium,Hard" comes into play. Haha.

Or you buy the parts you have trouble making.
^ this. if you suck at doing the player input crafting skills, do easy casual-player quests or even other activities that they *can* do, and use the money to buy what they can't do. i love that.

It also helps facilitate in-game economy for servers that have enough players to support it.  Why would you buy a sword from another player if you could easily ham-fist your way through making a good one?

Crafting should involve an investment of time and skill in a proper balance to not be tedious.  The balance will be the trick.

Balancing that against the gold required to skip steps will be the other key.  Those who enjoy crafting shouldn't feel stupid for not just buying stuff... and those who find crafting a chore should have an alternative that isn't onerous.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: belgariad87 on January 25, 2013, 01:59:04 PM
But we should also make it to where the players who aren't so great with games have the possibility of creating a good weapon. Which the system "Easy,Medium,Hard" comes into play. Haha.

Or you buy the parts you have trouble making.
^ this. if you suck at doing the player input crafting skills, do easy casual-player quests or even other activities that they *can* do, and use the money to buy what they can't do. i love that.

It also helps facilitate in-game economy for servers that have enough players to support it.  Why would you buy a sword from another player if you could easily ham-fist your way through making a good one?

Crafting should involve an investment of time and skill in a proper balance to not be tedious.  The balance will be the trick.

Balancing that against the gold required to skip steps will be the other key.  Those who enjoy crafting shouldn't feel stupid for not just buying stuff... and those who find crafting a chore should have an alternative that isn't onerous.

some of that will be up to the price of services/player-made items, which in the end is at the discretion of the player economy.

Edit: fixed your quoting for you.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Rothrod on April 29, 2013, 12:46:40 PM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.


I think that this would be the way to put skill in game. No levels, no exp, only player's skills! I've this idea: use a "minigame" for every skill, simply to obtain simply items, but very hard to obtain best items(in smithing, for example). In this way the player is no more influenced by the time that he have played, but by his skill.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Sean on April 29, 2013, 05:35:40 PM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.


I think that this would be the way to put skill in game. No levels, no exp, only player's skills! I've this idea: use a "minigame" for every skill, simply to obtain simply items, but very hard to obtain best items(in smithing, for example). In this way the player is no more influenced by the time that he have played, but by his skill.
I'm not sure how Paul will go about doing it, but skill will play a major part in combat. But this topic has been covered a few times before so I suggest searching the forum.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on April 29, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.


I think that this would be the way to put skill in game. No levels, no exp, only player's skills! I've this idea: use a "minigame" for every skill, simply to obtain simply items, but very hard to obtain best items(in smithing, for example). In this way the player is no more influenced by the time that he have played, but by his skill.
I'm not sure how Paul will go about doing it, but skill will play a major part in combat. But this topic has been covered a few times before so I suggest searching the forum.

Yeah, I already responded to the quoted post so I didn't feel the need to respond again.

My thoughts on experience and skill levels are well documented at this point. :)  I think you only need to search for "400 badgers" or something to find my rants on the evils of XP. :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ebag51 on April 30, 2013, 02:28:24 PM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.


I think that this would be the way to put skill in game. No levels, no exp, only player's skills! I've this idea: use a "minigame" for every skill, simply to obtain simply items, but very hard to obtain best items(in smithing, for example). In this way the player is no more influenced by the time that he have played, but by his skill.
what will be annoying if a player wants to mass produce an item to open a shop to sell them to get rich


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on April 30, 2013, 02:34:52 PM
I know I'm entering the discussion late.  Sorry, I just discovered the game this week.

I always liked skills that had a reflection of player skill.  For example, if your careful enough as a player in the lock picking interface in Skyrim, you as a "novice" could pick advanced locks.

I think it would positively impact the game economy if complex crafting, like sword making required skillful player input.  The more precise the player is, the better the crafting result is.  As a demonstration of the concept, Epic Mickey for the 3ds has the player trace drawings to help Mickey draw new items.  The more accurately the player traces, the better the resulting item.

I could see this similar to an interface for skinning a deer.

I know this would add a lot to the programming and possibly server overhead, but I think it would add a lot of value to player crafted items.


I think that this would be the way to put skill in game. No levels, no exp, only player's skills! I've this idea: use a "minigame" for every skill, simply to obtain simply items, but very hard to obtain best items(in smithing, for example). In this way the player is no more influenced by the time that he have played, but by his skill.
what will be annoying if a player wants to mass produce an item to open a shop to sell them to get rich

I'm not clear on the annoying part.  It sounds like a player-based economy to me.  "get rich" is not an easy thing to achieve anyway.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on April 30, 2013, 05:54:54 PM
Plus, that happens in real-life. Mass-produce a good product, get rich. Happens everyday.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ebag51 on April 30, 2013, 06:15:05 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on April 30, 2013, 06:22:00 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on April 30, 2013, 06:23:52 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
Lol yea :P I will probably make a LOT of wooden swords first, but even that would be a bit of a process..


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ebag51 on April 30, 2013, 06:24:06 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on April 30, 2013, 06:26:02 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
1 week would be equivalent to an hour or two, well not that long.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on April 30, 2013, 06:45:12 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
It's not like you can't do anything else. Just trade something for a nice sword and head on your way. Business is complex, especially in the metal working business.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ebag51 on April 30, 2013, 07:16:03 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
It's not like you can't do anything else. Just trade something for a nice sword and head on your way. Business is complex, especially in the metal working business.
when alpha is released on multiplayer servers i'm gonna open up trading posts (places to barter goods with the shop keeper ex: food for sword or gems for armor depending on what i have in stock to trade)

lol its kinda boarder line general store


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on April 30, 2013, 08:38:17 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
It's not like you can't do anything else. Just trade something for a nice sword and head on your way. Business is complex, especially in the metal working business.
when alpha is released on multiplayer servers i'm gonna open up trading posts (places to barter goods with the shop keeper ex: food for sword or gems for armor depending on what i have in stock to trade)

lol its kinda boarder line general store
xD... That sounds fun to go to. I feel like being a bandit and trading the armor I find from robbery/murder. Nobody would know until they found me :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: ebag51 on May 01, 2013, 08:16:01 AM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
It's not like you can't do anything else. Just trade something for a nice sword and head on your way. Business is complex, especially in the metal working business.
when alpha is released on multiplayer servers i'm gonna open up trading posts (places to barter goods with the shop keeper ex: food for sword or gems for armor depending on what i have in stock to trade)

lol its kinda boarder line general store
xD... That sounds fun to go to. I feel like being a bandit and trading the armor I find from robbery/murder. Nobody would know until they found me :)
I'd sell you food for that stolen armor and not ask any questions lol


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BenKenobiWan on May 01, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
In real life, if a skilled miner/smelter/smith were to make a sword alone, it would take months. If a smith were to buy iron stock, it would still take at least a few days to make a low-quality sword on your own.

In other words, it should take longer than a week to make ten swords (on your own. If you were working as a team it would certainly be possible).


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Rothrod on May 02, 2013, 05:48:14 AM
I think that may be different quality of sword in base of your accuracy during the minigame. For the creating time i think that a sword take a long time to be created, 4-5 in-game days... You will earn money not thanks to quantity of sword(for example), but for quality, in base of your skill in the minigame.

ps: can I share a flash game that may be helpfull?


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on May 02, 2013, 07:56:45 AM
ok but i hope the mini games arent too long

It should take a long time to create something metal.  Assuming you run through all the steps yourself, you have to smelt the ore, forge the blanks, run the metal through multiple temperatures and tempering, etc..

This is not a "click 5 times to make a sword" sort of game.
i just hope it won't take an in game week to make 10 stock of swords for a sword shop
In real life, if a skilled miner/smelter/smith were to make a sword alone, it would take months. If a smith were to buy iron stock, it would still take at least a few days to make a low-quality sword on your own.

In other words, it should take longer than a week to make ten swords (on your own. If you were working as a team it would certainly be possible).

This.

Do note that some steps require little to no supervision for part of the time.  There are periods where the metal is just melting or the sword is going through stages of cooling.  A skilled smith should be able to work on more than one thing at a time by staggering the work.  I suspect real black smiths and weapon smiths did this all the time.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on May 02, 2013, 08:01:13 AM
I think that may be different quality of sword in base of your accuracy during the minigame. For the creating time i think that a sword take a long time to be created, 4-5 in-game days... You will earn money not thanks to quantity of sword(for example), but for quality, in base of your skill in the minigame.

Yep.  I think the value of a sword will be dependent on materials and time to make it.  So a bronze sword is going to be cheaper than a steel sword... and for good reason.  Since bronze is cast, these can be churned out in quantity with relatively little labor as compared to the multiple step process necessary to make a properly tempered steel sword.

ps: can I share a flash game that may be helpfull?

Sure.  I already kind of have in mind how some of the crafting "mini games" will work but a link is not harmful. :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on May 02, 2013, 01:18:49 PM
Sure.  I already kind of have in mind how some of the crafting "mini games" will work but a link is not harmful. :)
Unless the linked page has an infected JavaScript file..


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Rothrod on May 02, 2013, 01:19:55 PM
http://www.kongregate.com/games/FliplineStudios/jacksmith?acomplete=searchejacksmith

A system like this (but very improved) may be very good!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BigredRm on May 02, 2013, 05:20:21 PM
http://www.kongregate.com/games/FliplineStudios/jacksmith?acomplete=searchejacksmith

A system like this (but very improved) may be very good!
Thanks for stealing 2 hours of my life. That was a fun little game. Reminds me of a more entertaing version of vanguards crafting style.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on May 03, 2013, 12:33:06 AM
It was a fun little game.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Rothrod on May 03, 2013, 05:04:44 AM
http://www.kongregate.com/games/FliplineStudios/jacksmith?acomplete=searchejacksmith

A system like this (but very improved) may be very good!
Thanks for stealing 2 hours of my life. That was a fun little game. Reminds me of a more entertaing version of vanguards crafting style.


Hahahah I'm still playing it XD


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BenKenobiWan on May 08, 2013, 05:42:31 PM
http://www.kongregate.com/games/FliplineStudios/jacksmith?acomplete=searchejacksmith

A system like this (but very improved) may be very good!
Thanks for stealing 2 hours of my life. That was a fun little game.
Ditto


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on May 08, 2013, 05:52:20 PM
I played it until I defeated the wizard... by then it started to feel like a second job. :)

P.S.: I hate maces. :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on May 08, 2013, 10:01:29 PM
I played it until I defeated the wizard... by then it started to feel like a second job. :)

P.S.: I hate maces. :)
Every time I think of Paul, I imagine Bruce from "Anchor Man" only broader, with a more solid face and a shaven bristle beard.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on May 08, 2013, 10:14:44 PM
I played it until I defeated the wizard... by then it started to feel like a second job. :)

P.S.: I hate maces. :)
Every time I think of Paul, I imagine Bruce from "Anchor Man" only broader, with a more solid face and a shaven bristle beard.

This is what I looked like 4-5 years ago or so: (http://i.imgur.com/BGa2ZHN.png)

The thing you don't see in that picture is that I have a pony tail down past my waist.  The hair in the front is now past my shoulders, too... and so is tied back in the pony tail.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BigredRm on May 09, 2013, 05:36:30 AM
short in front for the fellas long in back for the ladies. I miss having long hair.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on May 10, 2013, 04:19:30 PM
I was nearly spot-on. Hahah!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on May 10, 2013, 04:34:24 PM
Heheh... I shave once a week... whether I need it or not. ;)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on May 11, 2013, 12:17:54 PM
Heheh... I shave once a week... whether I need it or not. ;)
You should star in a Kung-fu movie.  ;)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: BenKenobiWan on May 12, 2013, 08:07:31 PM
I was nearly spot-on. Hahah!
He's posted this picture before. You might just have seen it and forgotten.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on May 19, 2013, 02:59:21 PM
I was nearly spot-on. Hahah!
He's posted this picture before. You might just have seen it and forgotten.
I thought he posted an even older picture before.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Iggyjeckel on May 19, 2013, 03:36:45 PM
I think I only shave when it gets grizzly Adams long. Or when the wife yells at me to do it lol


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Michael Musgrove on May 19, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I was nearly spot-on. Hahah!
He's posted this picture before. You might just have seen it and forgotten.
I thought he posted an even older picture before.
He did. He said "This is a picture of me about 12 years ago" and I was prepared to post my baby picture so I could say "This is a picture of me about 12 years ago". :)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Slimesannoy on June 07, 2015, 09:36:31 PM
Maybe there would be like a mini-game for each skill, and you get a score depending on how well you would do that would determine the outcome. Don't know if that's not RPGy enough... By the way I'm a coder:)


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Slimesannoy on June 07, 2015, 09:40:03 PM
Whoops! Didn't relize mini-game were already being implemented                                  :gives embaressed look:


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: pspeed on June 08, 2015, 12:55:39 AM
Whoops! Didn't relize mini-game were already being implemented                                  :gives embaressed look:

Well, not "implemented" but "planned".  :)

Welcome to the forum.


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Slimesannoy on June 08, 2015, 10:06:57 AM
Thank you pspeed!


Title: Re: Skills and training...
Post by: Moonkey on July 08, 2015, 12:02:14 PM
Oh my god. This was two years ago? UAGH.